Curlin ran unplaced.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:52 pm

i actually agree with you, big Z should get it.

but i don't think this race was an end all be all of curlin has lost it. he hasn't lost on dirt since the middle of 07

oliverstoned · Postby **oliverstoned** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:54 pm

Tom Fool if Curlin and Zenyatta were to meet on ANY surface at any time during this past year my money would be on Curlin. Why wasn't she in the classic she loves poly the purse was millions higher and it was a chance to lock up HOY. Zarkava went in the the Arc and shes only 3.

Heidilady · Postby **Heidilady** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:01 pm

oliverstoned wrote:Curlin would get my vote for HOY because I think he showed he is faster than Zenyatta or Big Brown for that matter. If it was about going undefeated Peppers Pride would win.

Actually it's more about going undefeated on both dirt and synthetic, against a competitive division, winning 4 G1s, 3G2s, and the Breeders' Cup championship in against the best of the year. She already beat horses that couldn't make the BC like Tough Tiz's Sis and Romance is Diane. Got Ginger Punch twice. Given her final punch and Curlin's performance, it looks like she'd have had a shot to beat him today. Still it won't be necessary. She'll get HOY. Oh and Favorite Trick got HOY as a 2yo with an undefeated record over lesser horses against a dual classic winner. There's precedent.

They could meet next year. Zenyatta's coming back. Curlin might be if the legal issues are still on going.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:04 pm

please

Z only ran once on Dirt, against an extremely overrated ginger punch, and beat her like she should.

curlin faced freaking red rocks, better talk now and grand coutiner in the man o war

curlin's race Breeders cup winners finished 1, 2 and 3.

you can't compare the two.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:04 pm

Wow - Zenyatta!! What can you say? She will definitely get the older filly or mare of the year, right?

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:05 pm

i have no doubt she will get HORSE of the year.

but i still think curlin's better

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:08 pm

I learned this lesson from Hall of Fame trainer Charlie Whitingham many years ago, you cant dance every dance. Curlin was over raced & tired in the stretch drive. I know you watched the raced today Charlie, as u paid your dues before becoming a HOF Trainer. Your student of training Louis.

oliverstoned · Postby **oliverstoned** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:09 pm

Heidilady I do agree she probaly will get HOY I'm just arguing she shouldn't and speaking of precidents I remember All Along getting HOY after a couple grass races here.

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but, Raven's Pass ran a phenominal time...1:59.22. I would think that this would rank in the top 3 or 4 times in history for 1 1/4 miles. Quite an effort.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:23 pm

2nd fastest time ever to ghostzapper at 1:59 flat

take t with a grain of salt.. every race has been ran pretty fast

erhrdt3 · Postby **erhrdt3** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:26 pm

Hmmm, that's a good point: simply for discussion sake, WHY didn't Zenyatta run in the regular Classic?

If they keep her racing next year, they have got to put her in with the big boys and see what happens. :?:

I still say Goldikova was the best filly performance this BC

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:29 pm

1. i agree with not running her in the classic. let's win HER division first. now when she comes back next year if she doesn't run in the classic, then you can make a case.

2. she is not THAT good. she's good. she's damn good. but she is very, very lucky to dodge eight belles, she never ran against hystericalady on dirt (which hystericalady is a good 5-7 legnths better) and didn't run against rags to riches.

she would have gotten smoked in the classic. moss knew it and took the sure money. had the race been on dirt.. maybe. her dirt race was the most impressive race of her career.

oliverstoned · Postby **oliverstoned** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:36 pm

Why Zenyatta didn't run in the Classic:

1) Owners knew she would lose
2) Owners knew Curlin would lose (Jess Jackson knew this too but is a true sportsman for giving it a whirl)
And so she backs into HOY

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:09 pm

Seems like some horse broke the 1:59 barrier but not sure who. Some time ago. Dr. Fager, Sunday Silence or Spectacular Bid. Someone must know on this board. But, again, 1:59.22 is still pretty good....even with a grain of salt.

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:12 pm

Yup, I was right. Spectacular Bid ran 1:57.8 on dirt. WOW :shock:

Pedigree Query

Curlin ran unplaced.

Raven's Pass

Curlin

The Bid