i watch alot of austalian racing at night, and there are king cagat's everhwehre. in stakes races, and htey can freaking run. why he never hit here I have no idea, but he can get you a good turf horse.
Fireslam, ASB provided no substance whatsoever. I A blind man can see that lane's end did not really go out of his way to suppor thte sire. if they did he wouldnt' be at dutchess views farms. that tells me nothing about the sire whatseover. asked her to explain her thoughts about the sire, she didn't. as you can see, other posters went into more detail about the sire which I apprciate.
no, i don't plan on breeding to him no matter what he says, but considering I can probably get half off the stud fee and pay NO borad fees becuase crystal gets to bored for free, yeah I'm pretty interested. again, which is why I asked her to stick to what I asked. I was leaning towards breeding somethin on her far m next next year, and I was leaning towards Anasheed until I found out this sire was going to be there.
King Cugat
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Hey BDW
Happy New year to ya.
Don't know if you have seen this site but it looks like its packed with info on Aussie / NZ racing stats. This is the King Cugat page.
http://www.virtualformguide.com/cgi-bin ... e=king9f1v
If you look around you can see info on his runners and maybe figure out some breeding patterns that might work. I would not be surprised that a horse like King Cugat would work in the SH as it seems they pattern breeding differently down there than up here. I have had an interest in some other stallions that were 'failures' in the NH only to show surprising ability down there. Our typical interst in 2yo brilliance going 2f in March on the dirt is not what they are about down there.
jm
Happy New year to ya.
Don't know if you have seen this site but it looks like its packed with info on Aussie / NZ racing stats. This is the King Cugat page.
http://www.virtualformguide.com/cgi-bin ... e=king9f1v
If you look around you can see info on his runners and maybe figure out some breeding patterns that might work. I would not be surprised that a horse like King Cugat would work in the SH as it seems they pattern breeding differently down there than up here. I have had an interest in some other stallions that were 'failures' in the NH only to show surprising ability down there. Our typical interst in 2yo brilliance going 2f in March on the dirt is not what they are about down there.
jm
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.
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oliverstoned
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My opinion of King Cugat is I wouldn't breed to him for free. Just not worth the costs involved in getting that baby to the races someday. There are quite alot of nice reasonable breed to race sires out there with stats that give you alot better chance to possibly make some money. I'm suprised you would even think about K.C. because you've talked about many of these nice breed to race stallions in previous posts. I had an open mind about KC when he came to stud and wanted him to do well (not like my built in prejudice against Storm Cats and Unbridled Songs). I saw Seaside Retreat race In the Tampa Bay Derby and he was very impressive looking but one horse does'nt make the stud. Sorry man this ones a dud, pass.
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bdw0617
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I understand where you are coming from. A couple of reasons. First, I love his pedigree. Secondly, I watch alot of races down under and I see with my own two eyes alot of of his offspring and they can at least a couple of them.. Laslty, looking at his numbers, they do take a second to come to form, they aren't earlybirds.
I'm debating it. I have about a month and a half to decide, nothing set in stone. Crystal just got back to NY today, I'll tell her to talk a look at him and tell me what she thinks.
I'm not so caught up about his american stats becuase I know how american breeders think. sale based, with not a hell of alot of emphisis on turf runners. everything king cugat isn't.
americans could give a crap about a good turf horse. that's how it has bee, it's how it will be more than likely. they aren't given fair shakes. it's why you see our stallions go overseas and produce world class horses . Japan right now is ru nning off our hishaps. hell, Manila is the best horse to touch a turf course in america in 100 years and he's freaking breedding horses in TURKEY for crying out loud.
so excuse me if I seem a little skpetical about the numbers of a tried and true turf horse.
I'm debating it. I have about a month and a half to decide, nothing set in stone. Crystal just got back to NY today, I'll tell her to talk a look at him and tell me what she thinks.
I'm not so caught up about his american stats becuase I know how american breeders think. sale based, with not a hell of alot of emphisis on turf runners. everything king cugat isn't.
americans could give a crap about a good turf horse. that's how it has bee, it's how it will be more than likely. they aren't given fair shakes. it's why you see our stallions go overseas and produce world class horses . Japan right now is ru nning off our hishaps. hell, Manila is the best horse to touch a turf course in america in 100 years and he's freaking breedding horses in TURKEY for crying out loud.
so excuse me if I seem a little skpetical about the numbers of a tried and true turf horse.
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein
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ginger1307
- Yearling
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King Cugat
Hey bdw, I live in AR too...We have 3 grass courses that are going to be available just south of us in LA ...So I am for one not afraid of breeding a grass horse especially with all the opportunity that will be available on that surface in our very close proximity, especially with the purses in LA..Good luck with whichever stallion you choose... 
g
g
Bdw,
Honestly, with the market they way it is and the fact he is in NY, where they have stallion awards, and he is not very desirable, I would think you could breed to him for free, or $500. It is brutal here this year. I get calls/emails every day, litterally, of people trying to get out from under horses. The mares I have to breed back in NY this year are all getting jumped for free. Except for the few who are doing well, you can guess the ones, if you foal board at the standing farm you can get the stud fee for a ham sandwich, hold the mayo.
As for breeding to him to race, a NY bred, it should be fine if you pick the correct mare. Western expression has really come on when they focused on turf. While he got alot of mares they were of poor quality. He has now firmly established himself as a regional race sire. I would expect the same of the King just focus turf, turf, turf. As breeder you'll be raking in an extra 20% when he runs.
My fear with breeding a known turfy in NY is that there is only turf races 8-9 months a year and if they are not good enough to run at NYRA, finger lakes has no turf course. There are many turf runners they try to force onto the dirt there and it just never seems to work, so off to Presquile and no breeders awards.
Honestly, with the market they way it is and the fact he is in NY, where they have stallion awards, and he is not very desirable, I would think you could breed to him for free, or $500. It is brutal here this year. I get calls/emails every day, litterally, of people trying to get out from under horses. The mares I have to breed back in NY this year are all getting jumped for free. Except for the few who are doing well, you can guess the ones, if you foal board at the standing farm you can get the stud fee for a ham sandwich, hold the mayo.
As for breeding to him to race, a NY bred, it should be fine if you pick the correct mare. Western expression has really come on when they focused on turf. While he got alot of mares they were of poor quality. He has now firmly established himself as a regional race sire. I would expect the same of the King just focus turf, turf, turf. As breeder you'll be raking in an extra 20% when he runs.
My fear with breeding a known turfy in NY is that there is only turf races 8-9 months a year and if they are not good enough to run at NYRA, finger lakes has no turf course. There are many turf runners they try to force onto the dirt there and it just never seems to work, so off to Presquile and no breeders awards.
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bdw0617
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i can't believe I never paid attentiont ot his, but is there really NO turf races in the winter in new york? I never pay attention, or that much to aqueduct until around the wood comes rolling. I usually try not to play more than 3 tracks and I play SA, GP and OP
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
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BargainBlueblood
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bdw0617
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I don't plan on being in arkansas for more than another year and a half or 2 years. by the time the foal was ready to race I will be living in socal. but i play fair grounds everyday and i have to say they have one of the best state bred programs I've seen with new york
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein
- Einstein
[quote="bdw0617"]i can't believe I never paid attentiont ot his, but is there really NO turf races in the winter in new york? I never pay attention, or that much to aqueduct until around the wood comes rolling. I usually try not to play more than 3 tracks and I play SA, GP and OP[/quote]
I think it has something to do with the 4 FEET OF SNOW.. JMO.
I think it has something to do with the 4 FEET OF SNOW.. JMO.