Storm Cat to Be QH Sire

[griff]

Why ae you so bitter?

griff

[LKR]

I just don't want Storm Cat or any other stallion who has done so much for the industry and are aged to have undue stress put on them . They deserve their good life, they have done enough. It is not a temperament that needs to be perpetuated. Just watched Los Alamitos racing and a Storm Cat grandson ended up third, Ed Burke made the comment that he had acted up while in the gate. Typical of this particular Storm Cat son's progeny.

[oliverstoned]

He will not have any undue stress because the semen they plan to use has already been collected last year from the "extra" on his dismounts. He hasn't a clue as to what the humans are doing with his long ago frozen spermies and is as always living in the lap of luxury. As for tainting his legacy, hogwash, it would enhance it, especially if he sires a QH champion. Remember Alydar sired QHs and his rep is fine with me. As for the vulgarity of squeezing the last penny, doesn't bother me as long as they stick to just using what they already collected. Now the temperment thing not to mention the crappy conformation and fragility thing, well if I was a QH breeder I wouldn't be too keen on that. I don't know why QH breeders ever let TBs in their breed in the first place.

[griff]

KLR, when I as old as SC [in human years] I hope you are not around to protect me from the draconian effects of sex.

Oliverstoned

Thoroughbreds and Morgans were the foundation of the QH breed, just like Arabs and North African stallions were the foundation of the TB. In other words you can't have a QH woth TB blood.

griff

[LKR]

Griff, a quarter horse, especially race stock, is usually 15/16 Thoroughbred blood. To have a Registered Quarterhorse, you have to have two registered Quarterhorse parents. If you have one Quarterhorse parent and one TB parent, they are appendix registered. They can race or show. If you choose to breed a quarterhorse who is appendix registered, you need to breed it to a regular registered quarterhorse. You cannot breed one appendix registered Qtr horse to another appendix Registered Qtr horse and register that foal with the AQHA. However, as soon as an appendix registered Qtr horse gets an Register of Merit in racing, must run fast enough to make an 80 or better Speed Index, or gets a ROM in the other classes of Quarter horse showing through so many points in halter, working classes, etc. it then moves from appendix to permanent registration. The TB has been a valuable cornerstone of the modern Qtr horse as we know it.

[radrider]

KLR, when I as old as SC [in human years] I hope you are not around to protect me from the draconian effects of sex.

Oliverstoned

Thoroughbreds and Morgans were the foundation of the QH breed, just like Arabs and North African stallions were the foundation of the TB. In other words you can't have a QH woth TB blood.

griff

Morgans were never a part of the quarter horse breed. They are crosses from Thoroughbreds and indian ponies.

[madelyn]

Not to disagree, but according to some sources I have read, the early QH was mainly descended from the Irish Hobby Horse. TB's came here much later.

[walaa]

Just curious about the storm cat son remark that, "that one" is known for bad temperments, can you say which one youare talking about? I am always wondering, and have asked before on on of these forums, ( no one responded) about the bad temperment thing that I always read being passed on from SC to his progeny. I also have read, like the post earlier, that even grandbabies get this temperment. One poster on this forum (long ago, not recent) made the comment that in particular grandaughters were bad. I have a SC grandaughter, is the reason I am asking opinions, who is sweet as pie. Just a big baby, not saying she has never been bad or disagrees on occasion, just overall a very smart and personable mare. She is out of a Saratoga Six mare, maybe he had a good temperment but I have her mother who is quite mental so go fig ure

[diomed]

Not to disagree, but according to some sources I have read, the early QH was mainly descended from the Irish Hobby Horse. TB's came here much later.

I have read that too.
In fact, I read that they used to race (at short distances) small hobbies/galloways in England before the advent of the TB.
That tradition was brought over to the Americas.
The early quarter running horse was a very small horse too. Sturdy but short in stature usually about 14h tall.
About the size of a galloway I would suspect.
They suspect that the early british running horse had a lot of Spanish barb blood, just like the native American horses(ponies, etc).
No wonder the TB and QH mix well and no speed is sacrificed when crossed, unlike when the TB meets up with other breeds.
I suspect that the TB and QH share a genetic speed gene that is unique only to them because of some distant common ancestry.
Just something I suspect and is yet to be proven.

[griff]

earlier "Quarter Horse Types" may have had a differient or many differient breeds; however, if you look at the pedigree of almost any QH and ALL racing QHs you will find they are now mosthy TB and that goes back a long long way.

griff

[diomed]

earlier "Quarter Horse Types" may have had a differient or many differient breeds; however, if you look at the pedigree of almost any QH and ALL racing QHs you will find they are now mosthy TB and that goes back a long long way.

griff

Very true.
Janus II...
Very old English blood. Janus(Godolphin Arabian x Little Hartley Mare) X Fox Mare(Fox x Bald Galloway Mare)
Many breeders in the colonies inbred INTENSELY to this little compact imported English stallion and founded the base of the breed that we know as the American Quarter Horse...
(Many of the mares that Janus II was bred to were 'native' quarter running horses of unknown documented blood)

[LKR]

My reference to bad temperament comes from my observations of Storm Cat descendenets. The first one I was around was a maternal granddaughter. She was a sweet horse but at any moment could explode. She had broken her hip in an incident while being loaded into the trailer after she was bought at a yearling sale. Hence her name, What A Crying Shame. She didn't change even after having a foal. Our most recent experience was when our filly was going out onto the track for her first race and the horse in front of her, a granddaughter of SC, reared, kicked out and got her back legs over the cyclone fence and fell down in front of her thrashing. Our filly jumped over the ropes that keep the crowd back and jogged back toward the barns. Later, I was told the SC granddaughter had been schooled over and over for a period of time because of this explosiveness so the people involved had done a lot to try and prevent it. Everyone in this part of the country know this is a possibility, the goofy temperament, when they breed, or buy this line up here. There are a few who do handle the situation, but certainly, it isn't known for it's tractability. Those that can, usually can run like h*ll. The sad part is the ones who screw things up for themselves mess it up for others who are in their races. Just about anyone who races horses up here hold their breath when there is on of these in the same race as their horse.

[Intrinsic Worth]

Just curious about the storm cat son remark that, "that one" is known for bad temperments, can you say which one youare talking about? I am always wondering, and have asked before on on of these forums, ( no one responded) about the bad temperment thing that I always read being passed on from SC to his progeny. I also have read, like the post earlier, that even grandbabies get this temperment. One poster on this forum (long ago, not recent) made the comment that in particular grandaughters were bad. I have a SC grandaughter, is the reason I am asking opinions, who is sweet as pie. Just a big baby, not saying she has never been bad or disagrees on occasion, just overall a very smart and personable mare. She is out of a Saratoga Six mare, maybe he had a good temperment but I have her mother who is quite mental so go fig ure

I've worked with my fair share of Storm Cat offspring and a vast majority are nuts. Generally, the colts aren't bad if handled right in the beginning, but the fillies are mean.

[Pan Zareta]

Given that some Storm Cat's sons (most notably, Devon Lane, Hennessy) have enjoyed success as QH sires, this news was not surprising.

Remember Alydar sired QHs

He sired 4, two of which (Alydash & First Ever) made ROM and acheived full registration. Alydar's QH book was limited by a stratospheric stud fee that reliable sources place in the neighborhood of $2,000,000.

Thoroughbreds and Morgans were the foundation of the QH breed, just like Arabs and North African stallions were the foundation of the TB. In other words you can't have a QH woth TB blood.

Morgans have been bred to Quarter types and Quarter horses, esp. by the old Swenson ranch, but the breeds evolved concurrently, via selection for type, from pretty much the same stock. In other words, by timeframe the Morgan could not be considered a foundation of the QH.

Not to disagree, but according to some sources I have read, the early QH was mainly descended from the Irish Hobby Horse. TB's came here much later.

There's as much reliable documentary evidence for that as there is for the Mustang being the primary ancestor of the QH, which is very little. Yes, Hobbies, Galloways, and 16th cent. Spanish stock are part of the QH and Morgan and every other breed developed in North America, but do they constitute a significantly greater degree of the 'blood' of those breeds than the TB? By DNA, probably not (ref. Behara et al. Genetic relationships between horse breeds based on microsatellite data: applications for livestock conservation. In Proceedings of the 6th World Congress on Genetics Applied to Livestock Production (1998) Vol. 28. 119–122.

The contemporary racing QH is a type-selected sub-breed of the TB, often 63/64ths reg. TB, and would be even more so had the politics of the early AQHA not been such that TB ancestry was frequently suppressed. Registered TBs were about as popular in that context as the short-pedigreed TB appendix stock was with the Jockey Club when it took over maintenance of the American Stud Book in the 1890's. To ensure entry of their produce in the early AQHA registries named, registered, TB mares were stripped of their pedigree and became "[Name of Owner] Mare". Halfbred mares w/ TB dams were known only by their sire's name. Etc. Eventually, the AQHA became more forgiving of TB blood, but they're no more interested in correcting the historic record than are the TB registries.

[Jorge]

Is it possible to employ Storm Cat as a sire with Thoroughbred mares, at a reduced non-guaranteed price, with the understanding that the resulting foal will only serve as a future sire and will not run? I think that breeders of Thoroughbred horses of flamboyant colors may be interested. After all, he has proven an affinity with sabino-ness.