The World's Best Horses

[Mom]

Best 1 furlong sprint to the auction floor.....The Green Monkey

[wallinga]

Turf : Nijinsky, Dubai Millennium
Dirt : Cigar, Secretariat
Mixed : Dubai Millennium, Secretariat
Long Distace : MAKYBE DIVA, Deep Impact
Mare : MAKYBE DIVA

Dont agree ?

Turf: Mill Reef, Ribot, Phar Lap
Dirt: Secretariat, Affirmed
Mixed: Phar Lap
Long Distance: Phar Lap
Mare:Dahlia
Two year Old: Luskin Star
Sprinter: Vain

[SemparQuel]

.. Phar Lap, Ribot, Red Rum, Sea-Bird, Tulloch, Bahram, ..

[steward]

As far as competition goes, they were lucky to find anyone willing to race against Secretariat by the time he made his grass debut.

It's kinda tough to sacrifice a good horse racing for second money.

Make no mistake about it, Secretariat was a great horse, whether he raced on dirt, turf, or broken glass.

LOL. It wasn't like there were any spectacular turf horses kept in the barn for fear of Secretariat. If dodging is the claim, who exactly dodged the foreigners in the DC International for fear of another loss?

By the way, does "broken glass" include off tracks? Big Red took the lead against Prove Out and then got his doors blown off down the stretch by the big bad 4yo. Suddenly, the soft turf company began to look more inviting to the syndicate.

Secretariat was coming back to the track off an illness and he was a year younger than Prove Out in the Woodward. He proved that Prove Out was no threat when he was completely healthy, when he demolished him later in the year when he took the Marlboro Cup in world record time.
It's a shame he didn't get the opportunity to prove that he was a great enough racehorse to your satisfaction.

Excuse me, but a few corrections. The Marlboro was several weeks before the Woodward. It was on a fast track at Secretariat's ideal distance. And Prove Out was never beaten by Secretariat in any other race.

That Secretariat was suffering from anything - illness, lack of training, etc. - at Woodward time is part of a myth that isn't borne out by the contemporaneous news accounts and the timeline. His trainer thought that he was fit to go. It was the mythmakers later who developed the excuses that are mindlessly accepted and repeated as fact.

After the Woodward, the connections were in a bind. One more loss in addition to the two suffered already after the Belmont, and the image established against a weak class of distance-averse 3yos would be shattered forever. (Imagine Curlin with one more loss AFTER the Breeders Cup, and you get the picture.) The only viable alternative to facing Prove Out again in the JCGC was to find a softer field to run against. Turf racing provided that "out", providing that there could be an excuse for ducking the DC International. So off to Canada after the Man o' War!

Think about it. The Jockey Club Gold Cup was the proverbial classic dirt championship at the time, and the DC International was the same for the turf. Big Red ran in neither, even though he would receive the standard WFA allowances. Instead, he took a 9 lb advantage in Canada and bailed. The risk was too great.

It was a wise choice. Prove Out slaughtered the JCGC field too.

[steward]

My post above is a summary of a debate that's been brewing over the last several years on the web. Various researchers have pored over primary sources and found holes in the conventional wisdom about 1973. There have been several sites where these occurred, and I wish that I had some links to provide. But the ones I read were in 2007 and early 2008, iirc. They're probably somewhere still out there if you're interested.

Steve Haskin also chimed in last year with some research on Prove Out.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-ra ... Horse.aspx

He still includes some of the iffy rationalizations for Secretariat, but in the end, concedes that Prove Out probably was the best distance dirt horse in late 1973, especially when the track was wet. It undoubtedly was recognized by Laurin (if not also by Ms. Chenery). The later spin that they took Secretariat out of the biggest races of the year in order to buff up Riva Ridge's resume rings very hollow. Most likely, it was their coming to the same realization that Haskin has.

[wangkw]

[wangkw]

What prices greatness in racing ? In my opinion...it is not by only the number of wins they have collected..but their capability and
consistency in a strong field...good ones always work well under pressure...a rare characteristic which humans and 4-leggers
do share among them unnoticed.

Some runners just have too few starts to prove their consistency..while others too particular about the type of the runway
...soft, wet, fast, firm, sloppy, heavy, dirt, turf etc...

Secretariat won its triple crown in flying colour, smashing world record times when winning the Kentucky and Belmont, the latter remains
unchallenged. In fact it was widely speculated at that time its Preakness win too came in a new track record time. Last but not least,
in the Marlboro Cup it produced yet another world record run by winning the inaugural 1 1/8 mile dirt race...beating joint world record
holder of 9 1/2f, Riva Ridge in a 1-2 sensation for the winning stable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huOmZH3G-Dc

A true champion must be an all rounder, all weather sort...thus the poor Dubai Millennium was another horse which would qualify.
Its 2 middle distance runs on dirt, including the coveted Dubai World Cup, were both deadly..both under 2 minutes..both are still
track record times till today.

I do agree the late Spectacular Bid was a good thing of its time too. The world record holder of 10f, at 1.57:80, pulled off an amazing
26-2-1 in 30 starts before getting its pension and enjoy life.

[steward]

One of the discoveries made by the coterie of researchers mentioned above (and posted online) was the existence of a tremendous speed bias during the Secretariat years. It included his day at Churchill, where, not surprisingly, TWO horses beat the existing stakes record.

Also, 1972 and 1973 saw an onslaught on NYRA track records. IIRC, each year saw over 20 track and world records at the 3 main tracks. The vast majority of them were set by allowance class runners. Some of them were broken multiple times.

In the Riva Ridge WR race (referred to by the above poster), all but one of the entrants either tied or broke the old mark. It was that insane.

I wish that I had the old links. It was an eye-opener and explains a lot of the incongruities.

One of the things for which I admire Secretariat was his ability to run on such unforgiving surfaces and remain healthy. I wish that he had been able to transmit his speed to his offspring a little more efficiently, so that his durability would be a little more dominant in the gene pool at the moment.

[Bid]

Wangkw
Thanks-You reminded me of Bid's durability and versatility. I copied the stats from this site. It should also mention the two 10 race win streaks and the 13 graded wins. Horses today don't make 13 starts. He NEVER lost between 7F and 1 1/4 Miles- that's astounding. I still contend that if it were not for the Belmont he would be widely viewed as the best ever. Absolute dominance.

Champion 2-Year-Old Colt, 1978.
Champion 3-Year-Old Colt, 1979.
Champion Older Horse & Horse Of The Year, 1980, when he went undefeated, (nine for nine).
Set or equaled 8 Track and American Records.
Holds World Record for 1 1/4 miles on dirt: 1:57 4/5.
Became the 4th horse to win the Strub series.
Retired to a world-record stallion syndication totaling $22,000,000.
Hall Of Fame, 1982.

[Bid]

Correction- that was 13 Gr.1 wins and 23 stakes total

[Whirlaway]

steward,

Interesting that so many records were set during "the existence of a tremendous speed bias . . . The vast majority of them were set by allowance runners. Some of them were broken multiple times."

I've done a lot of reading and this is the first I've heard of such a "tremendous speed bias." I don't doubt it and it goes to show many horses that are considered "great" are over rated and their greatness lies not in their inherent ability but in the speed bias of the surface they ran upon.

Nice post steward.

[Sylvie Hebert]

speed bias or drugs/steroids beginning?

[Barn 31 T-breds]

One of the discoveries made by the coterie of researchers mentioned above (and posted online) was the existence of a tremendous speed bias during the Secretariat years. It included his day at Churchill, where, not surprisingly, TWO horses beat the existing stakes record.

Also, 1972 and 1973 saw an onslaught on NYRA track records. IIRC, each year saw over 20 track and world records at the 3 main tracks. The vast majority of them were set by allowance class runners. Some of them were broken multiple times.

In the Riva Ridge WR race (referred to by the above poster), all but one of the entrants either tied or broke the old mark. It was that insane.

I wish that I had the old links. It was an eye-opener and explains a lot of the incongruities.

One of the things for which I admire Secretariat was his ability to run on such unforgiving surfaces and remain healthy. I wish that he had been able to transmit his speed to his offspring a little more efficiently, so that his durability would be a little more dominant in the gene pool at the moment.

I love the old quote attributed to Mark Twain: "there are three kinds of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Before anyone goes accepting your premise, maybe we ought to examine the statistics behind it.

When you say "20 track and world records", are they independent or overlapping? A world record has to yield a track record. Did you count both?

I'm working off a 35+ year memory here, but, didn't Secretariat set several of the NYRA records that you quote? If so, isn't it a little disingenuous to use the accomplishments of the horse you're trying to denigrate to make your point? Maybe you're making my point, not yours.

Also, didn't a great Argentine marathon horse, Paraje II, set several world and track records at little-run distances such as 1 5/8 miles and 1 3/4 miles? Maybe the type of records that were set should be examined, also.

How about grass? Were any of those records set on grass?

Let's look at some of the horseflesh that was competing in the time period you cite as having "an extreme speed bias".

Secretariat, Forego, Lindas Chief, Stop the Music, Our Native, Sham....
plus, Riva Ridge, Key to the Mint, Cougar II, West Coast Scout, Tentam.

Adjust their earnings for inflation and increased purses and you have a cadre of multi millionaires in that group.

And most of these horses were NY based and competed regularly on the NYRA circuit. The others raced there at various times.

And, how many of the records you cite as being set by "allowance class runners" were really stakes caliber horses? Because in those days it was common for trainers to prep for stakes in allowance races, and racing secretaries would write races to accommodate them.

There may have been a bias during that period, but did you ever stop to think that it may have been a class bias?

[Patuxet]

Steward gets it exactly right: " The Jockey Club Gold Cup was the proverbial classic dirt championship at the time, and the DC International was the same for the turf."

Kelso won the JC Gold Cup five times in a row; one win set a new American record which still stands. He was awarded HOY in all five years.

Kelso ducked no one. He represented the US in four consecutive editions of the DC International, running 2nd three times and finally winning in new American record time.

Kelso was the compleat race horse -- he won top stakes from a mile to two miles. I never saw a better American horse. Unfortunately because he was a gelding and didn't breed on his achievements tend to be forgotten or overlooked by later generations of fans.

[wangkw]

Speed and class bias certainly existed in those days...but the latter was unlikely to involve a major..only
in a prize bias occassion.

Also in those days was there any examination for disallowed doping? Such a medical bias is prevalent in
any of our human sports today...and the horsemen are all human, literally.

Some cited margin bias in Secretariat's Belmont win...I ruled it out..the 2nd and 3rd finishers fought a life
and death before crossing line..and with only a 1/2 length separating them.