KBequine I signed up, I think it's a great idea.
winds
Economy's Latest Victim
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Worksoplad
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Shammy Davis wrote:Zinn21: What you don't have right is what you are posting to this thread. If you want this thread to have legs, take it to the appropriate board. I for one am sick and tired of the unrelated equine posts that you and others are posting.
IMO, your political opinions belong on the Politics Board unless you can post relevant equine stuff w/it.
I noted that you didn't want to be lumped w/other so-called fanatics on another thread that caused one significant disappearance, but frankly to me, you are beginning to look like a twin.
It wasn't Zinn who turned this thread into a Politico.com thread, it was Reenci and Madelynn with their totally uncalled for "Obama is a Muslim" slant.
"Who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, but he who destroys a good book kills reason itself." John Milton.
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Shammy Davis
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Zinn21, I apologize but IMO you were giving the partisan side of this thread legs, when some of us were trying to gain something positive from the information initially posted.
Actually, KBEquine gave a very good link, so something good came of this thread. Winds signed up and I did too.
I'm personally sick and tired of this partisan cr*p. It's not just on the internet, the radio, the tv, facebook, twitter, but it shows up on the cell phone. We're all smart enough to know the rules. Take this stuff to the appropriate boards and leave it there.
Madelyn and Reenci, you are practicing bad posting habits. Bah!
Actually, KBEquine gave a very good link, so something good came of this thread. Winds signed up and I did too.
I'm personally sick and tired of this partisan cr*p. It's not just on the internet, the radio, the tv, facebook, twitter, but it shows up on the cell phone. We're all smart enough to know the rules. Take this stuff to the appropriate boards and leave it there.
Madelyn and Reenci, you are practicing bad posting habits. Bah!
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Shammy Davis
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Interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
When I was a naive young art chick working at a big Wall Street brokerage, I was flabbergasted by the fact that they would lend you money against your stock portfolio -- so you could buy more stock and pay more brokerage fees of course.
This worked great in a bull market. Of course, if the value of the underlying portfolio (the collateral fell), the brokerage would call in the loans, or some percentage of them. Then you might have to sell stock to pay off the loan, on which, naturally, the brokerage collected a commission. The whole thing sounded like a house of cards to me.
Seems like lending money on racehorses, an even more volatile market, lacks one key ingredient - the banks don't collect any commission on market churn. Now if they had bought Fasig-Tipton.... Okay, I am over my head here, being fundamentally still a naive art chick.
I wonder if the Statebred programs will adjust their strategy. After all, if you are able to buy a lot of cheap weanlings and yearlings and broodmares from Kentucky, what will happen to local breeders? Can the statebred programs stay afloat, particularly in areas that have many other woes?
Are breeders talking about this? Especially ones who have ridden out other industry cycles successfully?
ETA: I see that Shammy Davis did start to address this issue (Sorry, I skimmed over the digression section)
When I was a naive young art chick working at a big Wall Street brokerage, I was flabbergasted by the fact that they would lend you money against your stock portfolio -- so you could buy more stock and pay more brokerage fees of course.
This worked great in a bull market. Of course, if the value of the underlying portfolio (the collateral fell), the brokerage would call in the loans, or some percentage of them. Then you might have to sell stock to pay off the loan, on which, naturally, the brokerage collected a commission. The whole thing sounded like a house of cards to me.
Seems like lending money on racehorses, an even more volatile market, lacks one key ingredient - the banks don't collect any commission on market churn. Now if they had bought Fasig-Tipton.... Okay, I am over my head here, being fundamentally still a naive art chick.
I wonder if the Statebred programs will adjust their strategy. After all, if you are able to buy a lot of cheap weanlings and yearlings and broodmares from Kentucky, what will happen to local breeders? Can the statebred programs stay afloat, particularly in areas that have many other woes?
Are breeders talking about this? Especially ones who have ridden out other industry cycles successfully?
ETA: I see that Shammy Davis did start to address this issue (Sorry, I skimmed over the digression section)
monicabee wrote:I wonder if the Statebred programs will adjust their strategy. After all, if you are able to buy a lot of cheap weanlings and yearlings and broodmares from Kentucky, what will happen to local breeders? Can the statebred programs stay afloat, particularly in areas that have many other woes?
Are breeders talking about this? Especially ones who have ridden out other industry cycles successfully?
ETA: I see that Shammy Davis did start to address this issue (Sorry, I skimmed over the digression section)
Stronach moved six stallions to the biggest stallion station in Canada: Gardiner Farms. They have IMHO far higher stud fees than would have been supported in the markets they left. This had led to speculation that they will be bred mostly to Adena Springs mares and take all the breeder's awards. Time will tell.
For us, any Canadian stud fee is far cheaper than going to KY and dealing with your insane board, vet, and shipping rates. The days of nickel and diming to death every breeder who brings a mare into the state must end until the breeder is not losing his shirt at the sales.
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Shammy Davis
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IMO that the majority of state associations overlook the key element to success in the racing industry. Affordable and available stallions, IMO, are the key and follow that up with solid breeding bonuses. Even if that means initial subsidizing of private farms, eventually the money would be returned in taxes and racing revenues.
Another area where VA is lacking is training facilities. The last OT facility of any value was at Middleburg and I think it was sold to become a housing sub-division. There is absolutely no public facilities for trainers in VA. MD and PA have done a great job of maintaining training facilities.
The idea that KY stallions are the only way to success is preposterous.
In VA, the neglect is so obvious. The last name stallion in VA was BLACK TIE AFFAIR. A syndicate purchased him back from the Japanese and stood him Northern VA for about year. Then he was moved to WVA. That was some years ago. Before that Prenup was marketed in VA and then he disappeared to MD. It has been a crying shame.
I think PA has done a great job of bringing stallions to the state that will make an impact. I know a couple of VA owners who are leaving their mares in PA to get the breeding bonuses. Who could blame them.
I just guessing, but it looks to me like TX, NM, and AZ are looking toward long term support and improvement of their programs.
Another area where VA is lacking is training facilities. The last OT facility of any value was at Middleburg and I think it was sold to become a housing sub-division. There is absolutely no public facilities for trainers in VA. MD and PA have done a great job of maintaining training facilities.
The idea that KY stallions are the only way to success is preposterous.
In VA, the neglect is so obvious. The last name stallion in VA was BLACK TIE AFFAIR. A syndicate purchased him back from the Japanese and stood him Northern VA for about year. Then he was moved to WVA. That was some years ago. Before that Prenup was marketed in VA and then he disappeared to MD. It has been a crying shame.
I think PA has done a great job of bringing stallions to the state that will make an impact. I know a couple of VA owners who are leaving their mares in PA to get the breeding bonuses. Who could blame them.
I just guessing, but it looks to me like TX, NM, and AZ are looking toward long term support and improvement of their programs.
Shammy Davis wrote: The last OT facility of any value was at Middleburg and I think it was sold to become a housing sub-division. There is absolutely no public facilities for trainers in VA.
Didn't VA Tech buy it for their M.A.R.E. program? I'd heard they were moving some of their equine internships to the Middleburg area.
Of course, I could just be remembering wrong.
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Shammy Davis
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KBEquine posted:
You know initially it was reported that it was up for sale and developers were interested in. I just put the newspaper down and made a few "expletive deleted" comments and never returned to the subject.
I hope you are right. I'll check.
Didn't VA Tech buy it for their M.A.R.E. program?
You know initially it was reported that it was up for sale and developers were interested in. I just put the newspaper down and made a few "expletive deleted" comments and never returned to the subject.
I hope you are right. I'll check.
[quote="monicabee"]I wonder if the Statebred programs will adjust their strategy. After all, if you are able to buy a lot of cheap weanlings and yearlings and broodmares from Kentucky, what will happen to local breeders? Can the statebred programs stay afloat, particularly in areas that have many other woes?quote]
Cheap horses in Ky are still cheap after you ship them somewhere else. They are cheap for a reason. I've seen alot of people get burned because they were told (and believed) that any horse born in Ky is automatically better than a horse born somewhere else. People see all the Ky breds running in the stakes races and ignore all the ones running up the track for bottoms. You've always been able to get cheap horses out of Ky if you wanted them, so the state bred programs really don't have to adjust.
Cheap horses in Ky are still cheap after you ship them somewhere else. They are cheap for a reason. I've seen alot of people get burned because they were told (and believed) that any horse born in Ky is automatically better than a horse born somewhere else. People see all the Ky breds running in the stakes races and ignore all the ones running up the track for bottoms. You've always been able to get cheap horses out of Ky if you wanted them, so the state bred programs really don't have to adjust.
Shammy Davis wrote:KBEquine posted:Didn't VA Tech buy it for their M.A.R.E. program?
You know initially it was reported that it was up for sale and developers were interested in. I just put the newspaper down and made a few "expletive deleted" comments and never returned to the subject.
I hope you are right. I'll check.
I hate to admit, I'm probably wrong. I'm afraid it's a different property in Middleburg. I found the old thread on a different board & the discussion starts around post #35
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showt ... middleburg
Dave C wrote:Cheap horses in Ky are still cheap after you ship them somewhere else. They are cheap for a reason. I've seen alot of people get burned because they were told (and believed) that any horse born in Ky is automatically better than a horse born somewhere else. People see all the Ky breds running in the stakes races and ignore all the ones running up the track for bottoms. You've always been able to get cheap horses out of Ky if you wanted them, so the state bred programs really don't have to adjust.
Dave, I take your point when it comes to those new to the industry -- but it seems that in the current state of things it makes more sense to buy than breed. If you are aiming a little higher than the mean, I would shop in KY rather than CA - not in the bargain basement, but in the lower mid-range. The cost to take a horse from a yearling to the racetrack means those "bargains" are rarely worth the gamble, no matter what state you are in. And of course, what you give up by traveling is your trainer's local knowledge and a way to assess performance on the actual track you'll be running on -- so that is all part of the equation. It's not to say everyone will run to KY or CA, but it might well leach away the higher end of the market here.
I am watching with some concern for the people and horses who will be affected, so maybe I see it grimmer than it is. I am usually a cheerful pessimist who likes to be pleasantly surprised, but I am afraid of a real "climate change" for the TB industry here.
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Shammy Davis
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I agree. The state programs are the key. Years ago, I was thinking that the BC would bring more national attention to the sport, but I don't think that has happened.
As a sports market share, I'm not sure that horseracing has any recoverable share as it is presented currently. With the advent of horseracing TV the market share has moved to the sofa and recliner and active fan participation is not being enhanced. Without active fan participation the game is awash. Table gambling and slots are really the only thing holding most of racing up.
I was browzing the other night on Google and I came across a track that began out West with just informal QH racing. I'm wondering if that or shorter meets in various areas like what is practiced in the Europe and the UK might help. Maybe the logistics of it all would be prohibitive.
As a sports market share, I'm not sure that horseracing has any recoverable share as it is presented currently. With the advent of horseracing TV the market share has moved to the sofa and recliner and active fan participation is not being enhanced. Without active fan participation the game is awash. Table gambling and slots are really the only thing holding most of racing up.
I was browzing the other night on Google and I came across a track that began out West with just informal QH racing. I'm wondering if that or shorter meets in various areas like what is practiced in the Europe and the UK might help. Maybe the logistics of it all would be prohibitive.