white foals from solid parents?

[Derby Lyn]

I was wondering if any solid colored (solid bay or chestnut) direct daughters or sons of a white stallion have produced color on their foals, or solid white foals. Hope that makes sense. I am talking about a solid horse with minimal white, no stockings or blazes producing a wildly marked foal.

I know Wild by Design produced a white, but he was also a little wildly marked. And I know that a white foal has popped up out of solid parents with absolutely no white horses in the background, so I am not talking about these ones. I had a Puchi mare that was a solid bay with a tiny star and that was it, but her only foal was a bay with socks. I am talking about mares like her.

[accphotography]

No. There is a minimum amount of white that Dominant White can display and thus a solid (or very minimally marked) is extremely unlikely to pass the color of it's parent(s).

[madelyn]

About 17 months ago, I had an all white filly produced by Rocking Trick (dark bay, tiny star, one sock) and Glenfiddich Fire (chestnut mare with white star and two half stockings). Unfortunately she was born dead (twisted cord). It is still puzzling to me where all that white came from.

[accphotography]

Very possibly a new mutation. Very sad.

[Jorge]

I don't remember a "white" or a "stained white" being foaled from a pair
of solid color parents, one of which was sire or produced by a white progenitor. All the cases I remember came from either, a "white" progenitor (sire or dam) or a "stained white" progenitor (sire or dam). Its not impossible because, after all, theoretically (not proven though!) it's more improbable to achieve a white foal when both immediate parents are solid color than on the contrary. But you have brought a very good observation! Makes one ponder on this angle.

[reedhill]

Wow Madelyn...........that is great about producing a new white line, so sorry you lost the foal. After looking back at the parents pedigree, I'm not suprised you came up with white. Collectively, the dam a little more than the sire, they are loaded with horses back in their families that bring forward the white/sabino/DW's. I would bet breeding them together multiple times, you will get more white and/or lots of chrome! Super color pedigree match-up!

[madelyn]

How soon we forget? In 2005 there was a white filly out of a bay mare (Deebrand) by a chestnut stallion (Trust 'N Luck)..
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/breedi ... laims.aspx

[kimberley mine]

Madelyn, that came from the mare Deebrand. I once saw a picture of another foal of hers, who was copper-penny chestnut with huge up to the stifle stockings behind, over the knee in front, big belly spots, etc.

[going4stamina]

Thanks, Madelyn--I was trying to remember that, but for the life of me I thought it was Truluck. I kept looking at his pedigree and progeny with no luck...close, but no cigar!

[Jorge]

About 17 months ago, I had an all white filly produced by Rocking Trick (dark bay, tiny star, one sock) and Glenfiddich Fire (chestnut mare with white star and two half stockings). Unfortunately she was born dead (twisted cord). It is still puzzling to me where all that white came from.

I earnestly appreciate your report, which I consider very very important for my studies. Very very sorry for the loss. Thanks again Madelyn!

All the Best,

[accphotography]

How soon we forget? In 2005 there was a white filly out of a bay mare (Deebrand) by a chestnut stallion (Trust 'N Luck)..
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/breedi ... laims.aspx

But is this not a marked out of two solids with no white behind them?

I think she's more asking about a horse like Blonde in a Motel. She's totally solid, but she had a loudly marked parent. Could SHE produce back to her dam's white? I say no.

[TrueColours]

I think she's more asking about a horse like Blonde in a Motel. She's totally solid, but she had a loudly marked parent. Could SHE produce back to her dam's white? I say no.

Interesting. And I thought she definately WOULD be able to as the DW or sabino has proven to be recessive

I wish I could remember the name of the sire and dam of this filly, but she was born in the UK in 2004 out of a solid chestnut dam (that mare in the background is NOT her dam) out of a bay stallion with very minimal white - like a sock and a star



She HAD to be the result of recessive sabino gene popping up from literally nowhere I would think

Would this not be the exact same thing as Blonde In a Motel producing a foal like this one???

[RiddleMeThis]

Interesting. And I thought she definately WOULD be able to as the DW or sabino has proven to be recessive

Nope, DW and Sabino are both Dominant Genes, not recessive.

img]http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/images/UK_filly-Jul-04.jpg[/img]

She HAD to be the result of recessive sabino gene popping up from literally nowhere I would think

Would this not be the exact same thing as Blonde In a Motel producing a foal like this one???

Nope. This filly would most likely be a new mutation, not a recessive. Blondie doesn't have Traps DW gene so for her to have a DW the baby would have a completely new mutation. None of Blondies foals will have DW without the sire having it, or having a new mutation.

[Jorge]

Perhaps True Colors is referring to THE WHITE ADMIRAL:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/the+white+admiral

But I must clarify that mentioning this case is based solely on place and year of birth and I am not taking into account genotypical or phenotypical considerations.

[color]

I think until there is a DW gene testing and maybe the correct Sabino #? found in TBs we can all only guess.