Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

[Bast]

How can Geisha be both a source of soundness and unsoundness?

Miraculous transformations.

[louis finochio]

Look up the APR of Geisha's 1st 3 dams, & you will find the answer to your ?

[Shammy Davis]

Louis: Stop speaking in riddles. We can't read your mind. Just be specific about you think Geisha's impact is.

You have been playing with "smoke and mirrors" for so long on this thread that no one can make out what you are thinking.

[Bast]

Louis makes up exceptions and excuses as he goes along.

He said unraced horses were probably too unsound to train, so when an unraced stallion sires several runners with more than 100 starts from a variety of mares, he cherry picks one of these and says he was durable because he was inbred to Rough'n Tumble (16 starts).

Apparently he never looked at Dynamite Mike's pedigree:

The Photo of Dynamite Mike reads NFB, DM has inherited his robust conformation thru his NFB pedigree. DM forearm is in porportion to his large frame. While the photo dosent show his legs, I know his width of cannon bones is right on. DM has a colts head, of great wide colt appearance, his eyes show his love of his well being.

Because he has a y-chromosome from Bay Ronald, and because Louis likes his looks, Louis says Dynamite Mike is a "Non Fashion Bred". Never mind that 23 of 32 5th generation ancestors have Phalaris in their pedigrees, including Gallissa who has 5 lines to Phalaris, yielding a total of 52 crosses of Phalaris, Dynamite Mike is a NFB...

It's all very arbitrary. There is no systematic theory.

[kimberley mine]

Louis makes up exceptions and excuses as he goes along.

He said unraced horses were probably too unsound to train, so when an unraced stallion sires several runners with more than 100 starts from a variety of mares, he cherry picks one of these and says he was durable because he was inbred to Rough'n Tumble (16 starts).

Apparently he never looked at Dynamite Mike's pedigree:

The Photo of Dynamite Mike reads NFB, DM has inherited his robust conformation thru his NFB pedigree. DM forearm is in porportion to his large frame. While the photo dosent show his legs, I know his width of cannon bones is right on. DM has a colts head, of great wide colt appearance, his eyes show his love of his well being.

Because he has a y-chromosome from Bay Ronald, and because Louis likes his looks, Louis says Dynamite Mike is a "Non Fashion Bred". Never mind that 23 of 32 5th generation ancestors have Phalaris in their pedigrees, including Gallissa who has 5 lines to Phalaris, yielding a total of 52 crosses of Phalaris, Dynamite Mike is a NFB...

It's all very arbitrary. There is no systematic theory.

Dynamite Mike looks the way he does because he is FIT. No questions about it, nothing to do with breeding or having a "kind eye". You can see toned, moving muscle everywhere. He is also exceptionally turned out, from the browband on his bridle to the saddle cover to the button braids. His grooms did him proud that day.

Only 14 more pages to go before we reach 500, and the universe implodes.

[Bast]

Only 14 more pages to go before we reach 500, and the universe implodes.

Will this be preceded by the appearance of the Anti-Phalaris or perhaps the 12th Pseudo-Phalaris? From the line of Herod, preferably through Lexington via a long-lost line?

I'm ready.

I suspect the pigeons are practicing their goosestepping form.

[louis finochio]

DM Inherited his NFB conformation thru his crosses of those NP stallions & mares. I can tell by his photo that DM is a NFB by his NFB characteristics. I can tell a FB, from their weedy, small bone that they inherited thru their Inbreding to 1 sire line.

Our tb conformation & eyes reveal tons of facts to those student of conformation that will seek what those features mean & why they were put there by Mother Nature.

[BenB]

LOL, you must be out of the ordinary. 5x5 Neartic 6x6x6x6x nearco

[endspurt stables]

Hi Louis, I just read all your posts. You are right on man.

What about Master of Hounds any thought on this horse?? might have some Pand be fashion breed?

[BenB]

That,s an real Fashionbred.

Native Dancer 4x5
Northern Dancer 3x4x4
Special 4x4

The horse belongs to Coolmore and according to Louis they went away from
fashionbred

[Bast]

DM Inherited his NFB conformation thru his crosses of those NP stallions & mares. I can tell by his photo that DM is a NFB by his NFB characteristics. I can tell a FB, from their weedy, small bone that they inherited thru their Inbreding to 1 sire line.

Our tb conformation & eyes reveal tons of facts to those student of conformation that will seek what those features mean & why they were put there by Mother Nature.

There is NO theory. Louis KNOWS a NFB when he sees one, no matter what kind of pedigree the animal has. Louis decides what an animal must be, then makes up whatever justification he can generate to shore up his pronouncement.

Dynamite Mike 52 total crosses of Phalaris AND Louis NFBness.

Bay Ronald (1893)
……Bayardo
…………Gainsborough
………………Hyperion
……………………Owen Tudor
…………………………Tudor Minstrel (1x to Phalaris)
………………………………Sing Sing
……………………………………Mummy’s Pet
…………………………………………Reprimand
………………………………………………Fard
……………………………………………………Dynamite Mike

Phalaris
……Pharos
…………Nearco
………………Nasrullah
……………………Grey Sovereign*
…………………………Young Emperor* (2x to Phalaris)
……………………Red God
…………………………Yellow God* (3x to Phalaris)
……………………Bold Ruler
…………………………Irish Castle* (3x to Phalaris)
………………Nearctic* 5 X 5
………………Arctic Star
……………………Fidalgo
…………………………Ruby’s Princess* (3x to Phalaris)
………………Royal Charger
……………………Turn-to
…………………………Hail to Reason
………………………………Bold Reason* (2x to Phalaris)
…………………………Sir Gaylord
………………………………Sir Ivor* (3x to Phalaris)
……Fairway
…………Honeyway
………………Sweet Nothings* (2x to Phalaris)
……Sickle
…………Unbreakable
………………Polynesian
……………………Native Dancer
…………………………Natalma*

Agin the Law (Cyllene)
Seximee (Teddy)
Santa Claus (Hurry On) (3x to Phalaris)
Belle of Athens (Swynford) (1x to Phalaris)
Novara (Bay Ronald) (2x to Phalaris)
Hook Money (Bay Ronald)
Matterhorn (Ormonde) (4x to Phalaris)
Crocket (Bay Ronald) (3x to Phalaris)
Gallissa (Ormonde) (5x to Phalaris)
Special (Bay Ronald) (3x to Phalaris)
Best in Show (Bay Ronald)
Aggressor (Swynford) (2x to Phalaris)
Pelting (Ormonde) (1x to Phalaris)
Herbager (Bay Ronald) (3x to Phalaris)
Polamia (Swynford)
Comely Nell (Teddy)
Ribot (St Simon) (1x to Phalaris)
All Beautiful (Fair Play)
Princequillo (St Simon)
Olympia Dell (Bay Ronald) (1x to Phalaris)

[Bast]

Hi Louis, I just read all your posts. You are right on man.

What about Master of Hounds any thought on this horse?? might have some Pand be fashion breed?

Any horse can be a Fashion Bred. Any horse can be a Non Fashion Bred. It depends upon what Louis wants to believe about them.

Master of Hounds is inbred to Northern Dancer 3 X 4 X 4, which is the kind of inbreeding not much seen in modern TBs until Northern Dancer. This was not done with Bold Ruler, for example.

[louis finochio]

MASTER OF HOUNDS (USA) b. C, 2008 DP = 12-2-30-12-0 (56) DI = 1.07 CD = 0.25 - 5 Starts, 1 Wins, 2 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $60,878

Owner: Mrs John Magnier
Breeder: Silk And Scarlet Syndicate
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 5 Starts: 1 - 2 - 0, $60,878

At 2: 3rd Racing Post Trophy (Eng-G1,Don,8F)

Foaled March 4, 2008.
Racing in Ireland and England.

MASTER OF HOUNDS b. C, 2008
Kingmambo---Silk and Scarlet, by Sadlers Wells

MOH is a type 2 FB, as his Inbreeding is almost equal of Ph. & NP.
MOH is Inbred 3 X 4 X 4 ND---4 X 4 X 5 Native Dancer---4 X 5 X 5 Nearctic---4 X 5 x 5 Natalma all Ph sire line Individuals

MOH is Inbred 4 X 4 Special mare by Forli=Hyperion---5 X 5 Forli=Hyperion NP sire line outcross.

MOH has Inheritd 18 crosses NP sire line stallions & mares in his 5 generation pedigree. These NP stallions & mares are:

Geisha, Lady Glory=FairPlay----Case Ace, Miss Dogwood=Teddy----Segula=Dark Ronald----Count Fleet=Sundridge----Forli 2 crosses, Lady Angela=Hyperion.

Graustark, Bon Mot, Miss Molly=Rabelais----Equal Venture, Almahmoud=Swynford----Sanctus=Gainsborough----Neriad=Prince Rose----Lalun, Irish Star=Tourbillon----Barra=Bruleur.

This type 2 FB mating are averaging more liftime starts than those type 1 FB matings. As there are more crosses of those NP sire line stallions & mares in a type 2 FB mating than found in a type 1 FB mating.

[Bast]

MASTER OF HOUNDS (USA) b. C, 2008 DP = 12-2-30-12-0 (56) DI = 1.07 CD = 0.25 - 5 Starts, 1 Wins, 2 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $60,878

Owner: Mrs John Magnier
Breeder: Silk And Scarlet Syndicate
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 5 Starts: 1 - 2 - 0, $60,878

At 2: 3rd Racing Post Trophy (Eng-G1,Don,8F)

Foaled March 4, 2008.
Racing in Ireland and England.

MASTER OF HOUNDS b. C, 2008
Kingmambo---Silk and Scarlet, by Sadlers Wells

MOH is a type 2 FB, as his Inbreeding is almost equal of Ph. & NP.
MOH is Inbred 3 X 4 X 4 ND---4 X 4 X 5 Native Dancer---4 X 5 X 5 Nearctic---4 X 5 x 5 Natalma all Ph sire line Individuals

MOH is Inbred 4 X 4 Special mare by Forli=Hyperion---5 X 5 Forli=Hyperion NP sire line outcross.

MOH has Inheritd 18 crosses NP sire line stallions & mares in his 5 generation pedigree. These NP stallions & mares are:

Geisha, Lady Glory=FairPlay----Case Ace, Miss Dogwood=Teddy----Segula=Dark Ronald----Count Fleet=Sundridge----Forli 2 crosses, Lady Angela=Hyperion.

Graustark, Bon Mot, Miss Molly=Rabelais----Equal Venture, Almahmoud=Swynford----Sanctus=Gainsborough----Neriad=Prince Rose----Lalun, Irish Star=Tourbillon----Barra=Bruleur.

This type 2 FB mating are averaging more liftime starts than those type 1 FB matings. As there are more crosses of those NP sire line stallions & mares in a type 2 FB mating than found in a type 1 FB mating.

Louis believes that Phalaris descended individuals are somehow very different from Hyperion descended individuals. He talks about "outcrossing" to a non-Phalaris line. As a matter of fact, male-line descendants of Phalaris and Hyperion share the very same y-chromosome from Whalebone:

Whalebone (1807)
……Camel (1822)
…………Touchstone (1831)
………………Newminster (1848)
……………………Lord Clifden (1860)
…………………………Hampton (1872)
………………………………Bay Ronald (1893)
……………………………………Bayardo (1906)
…………………………………………Gainsborough (1915)
………………………………………………Hyperion (1930)
……Sir Hercules (1826)
…………Birdcatcher (1833)
………………Oxford (1857)
……………………Sterling (1868)
…………………………Doncaster (1870)
………………………………Bend Or (1877)
……………………………………Bona Vista (1889)
…………………………………………Cyllene (1895)
………………………………………………Polymelus (1902)
……………………………………………………Phalaris (1913)

and they are separated from Whalebone by 10 and 9 generations respectively OR, just slightly more generations than Master of Hounds is separated from Phalaris [8 generations].

Phalaris
……Sickle
…………Unbreakable
………………Polynesian*
……………………Native Dancer
…………………………Raise a Native
………………………………Mr Prospector
……………………………………Kingmambo
…………………………………………Master of Hounds

Louis maintains that the influence of Whalebone is trivial, but that Phalaris is not, at the same kind of generational distance from the horses under discussion.

This is of course, flaming hogwash with goosestepping pigeons parading around the fire.

[ElPrado]

Are you sure the pigeons aren't doing the hula?