Sorry for stepping into a semi-private conversation, but I have a question that is reflected in your discussions...
I was looking at A.P. Jet's race record today, and it looks like he raced primarily (or all his races, don't remember) on the turf. But Galloping Grocer is a dirt runner, so why would someone breed to him other than to try for a turf runner, based on A.P. Jet's race record? His pedigree says "dirt" to me, but wouldn't someone hedge because of his turf career?
Just curious... as you're discussing dirt vs. turf...
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Hi Skeenan,
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A. P. Jet raced exclusively in Japan and was a marginal SW there (a simple rule of thumb is to divide Japaneese earnings by 10 to get a handle on how much money they might have made here in North America).
To date (from the 2005 Stallion Register), A. P. Jet has had about $500k in earnings from his get on the turf and over $7,000k total, meaning that only about 1 in 14 dollars earned by his foals is from their turf races. He is a dirt sire.
A. P. Jet's pedigree (Fappiano - Tamerette by In Reality) is a solid one and more dirt than turf. A. P. Jet might have had a better race record had he raced here in North America on the dirt, rather than on the turf in Japan.
Regards,
Pete
This is a public post? You're ok
A. P. Jet raced exclusively in Japan and was a marginal SW there (a simple rule of thumb is to divide Japaneese earnings by 10 to get a handle on how much money they might have made here in North America).
To date (from the 2005 Stallion Register), A. P. Jet has had about $500k in earnings from his get on the turf and over $7,000k total, meaning that only about 1 in 14 dollars earned by his foals is from their turf races. He is a dirt sire.
A. P. Jet's pedigree (Fappiano - Tamerette by In Reality) is a solid one and more dirt than turf. A. P. Jet might have had a better race record had he raced here in North America on the dirt, rather than on the turf in Japan.
Regards,
Pete
Pete wrote:Hi Skeenan,
This is a public post? You're ok
A. P. Jet raced exclusively in Japan and was a marginal SW there (a simple rule of thumb is to divide Japaneese earnings by 10 to get a handle on how much money they might have made here in North America).
To date (from the 2005 Stallion Register), A. P. Jet has had about $500k in earnings from his get on the turf and over $7,000k total, meaning that only about 1 in 14 dollars earned by his foals is from their turf races. He is a dirt sire.
A. P. Jet's pedigree (Fappiano - Tamerette by In Reality) is a solid one and more dirt than turf. A. P. Jet might have had a better race record had he raced here in North America on the dirt, rather than on the turf in Japan.
Regards,
Pete
Thanks again for answering another one of my posts!! Much appreciated!!
Out of curiosity. How would you evaluate a horse like Street Cry? He did all of his running on dirt and is by a son of Mr. Prospector; however, he comes from a primarily grass female family. Also, given he won I believe three stakes in Dubai and only 1 in the States, how does one evaluate him in comparison to other stallions? He's not a stallion I am all that attracted to, but I am curious what the market take on him will be.
Hi Austique,
You bring up some valid points and questions about Street Cry.
You have to analyze the stallions value and see if it fits your needs. Your question about what he'll produce is most valid. As a grandson of Mr. Prospector who was exclusive a dirt horse (though bred for the turf), you'd have to assume that he might well get either. Affirmed was perhaps a better turf than dirt sire though he never ran on the turf himself.
Street Cry was a very good juvenile, multiple (and G1) placed at 2. He was a very good horse, certainly not a great one. His initial books were supposed to be superb. In 2005, his third year, he wasn't fast to fill if he did fill.
I'd probably breed to him based on my mares aptitude. A turf mare I'd presume to have a greater chance to produce a turf runner with Street Cry, etc.
Your questions will really only be answerable when his foals get to the track.
Regards,
Pete
You bring up some valid points and questions about Street Cry.
You have to analyze the stallions value and see if it fits your needs. Your question about what he'll produce is most valid. As a grandson of Mr. Prospector who was exclusive a dirt horse (though bred for the turf), you'd have to assume that he might well get either. Affirmed was perhaps a better turf than dirt sire though he never ran on the turf himself.
Street Cry was a very good juvenile, multiple (and G1) placed at 2. He was a very good horse, certainly not a great one. His initial books were supposed to be superb. In 2005, his third year, he wasn't fast to fill if he did fill.
I'd probably breed to him based on my mares aptitude. A turf mare I'd presume to have a greater chance to produce a turf runner with Street Cry, etc.
Your questions will really only be answerable when his foals get to the track.
Regards,
Pete
I thought Street cry ran a huge race to finish behind Left Bank in the Whitney (it's sad to say, but the winner's death was clearly triggered by the stress of this extremely fast race).
BTW, Pete brings up an excellent point about Affirmed.
An interesting thing about Street Cry is his damsire Troy, who is a Tip-Top nick with Danzig overseas (see Pilsudski, Fine Motion, and Westerner).
Pete, do you have an explanation for why Danzig has evidently worked even better in Europe and Australia than the United States? In my research I've noticed massive affinities for returns of Petition and that Lord Derby bred Stamina Influence Alycidon (who of course aren't found almost ever in the North American mare population); but I doubt the absence of two particular strains in this Country constitutes a complete explanation of this if you know what I mean.
I think it's very notable that Petition's best by far (Petingo) was out of an Alycidon mare and that Danzig works with:
1. Petition and Alycidon combined in Petingo
2. Petition without Alycidon
and...
3. Alycidon without Petition.
-llbean
BTW, Pete brings up an excellent point about Affirmed.
An interesting thing about Street Cry is his damsire Troy, who is a Tip-Top nick with Danzig overseas (see Pilsudski, Fine Motion, and Westerner).
Pete, do you have an explanation for why Danzig has evidently worked even better in Europe and Australia than the United States? In my research I've noticed massive affinities for returns of Petition and that Lord Derby bred Stamina Influence Alycidon (who of course aren't found almost ever in the North American mare population); but I doubt the absence of two particular strains in this Country constitutes a complete explanation of this if you know what I mean.
I think it's very notable that Petition's best by far (Petingo) was out of an Alycidon mare and that Danzig works with:
1. Petition and Alycidon combined in Petingo
2. Petition without Alycidon
and...
3. Alycidon without Petition.
-llbean
Thanks Pete for the recommendation but the only LA I'm in is the one in California and I breed for the Calbred program. My question was a rhetorical one prompted by the initial posts in the thread that compared FT and Hard Buck. Since I understand FOS is in Florida, I thought I'd ask his take on it. I know that here in California, a long winded turfer would be unlikely to make it but Favorite Trick might just fit in. FWIW.
As for the comment about Tricks Her, it was less about the price she sold for than nod to her sire for producing an exceptionally nice individual. So he can do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the next one. Recently, at the Barretts sales, I scoped out very nice individuals by Formal Dinner, Lake Austin and Afternoon Deelites to name a few, but until I see a consistent pattern I wouldn't necessarily breed to any of those stallions. Not surprisingly, those individuals sold at a level much higher than the average. Every stallion seems to have one or two. The question is whether you feel lucky.
As for the comment about Tricks Her, it was less about the price she sold for than nod to her sire for producing an exceptionally nice individual. So he can do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the next one. Recently, at the Barretts sales, I scoped out very nice individuals by Formal Dinner, Lake Austin and Afternoon Deelites to name a few, but until I see a consistent pattern I wouldn't necessarily breed to any of those stallions. Not surprisingly, those individuals sold at a level much higher than the average. Every stallion seems to have one or two. The question is whether you feel lucky.
Pete, referencing Mahubah, said -
Mahubah I believe that you hit upon something in Favorite Trick (and sons of Phone Trick) - they've been bred to the wrong kind of mares. I completely agree that Favorite Trick was bred to be a sprinter.
Perhaps this is why I have been seeing a good deal of Favorite Trick appearing in young, well-bred racing QH stock.....where he may yet prove to be one of those TB sires who contributes more to the Quarters than he can to his 'own kind'....because of the degree of sprinting bias in his pedigree.
Mahubah I believe that you hit upon something in Favorite Trick (and sons of Phone Trick) - they've been bred to the wrong kind of mares. I completely agree that Favorite Trick was bred to be a sprinter.
Perhaps this is why I have been seeing a good deal of Favorite Trick appearing in young, well-bred racing QH stock.....where he may yet prove to be one of those TB sires who contributes more to the Quarters than he can to his 'own kind'....because of the degree of sprinting bias in his pedigree.