Ghostzapper

[Sam]

Who might you offer as more dominant and more versatile (at 6f...and 1 mile...and 1 1/4 miles) than Ghostzapper?

Ghostzapper is "dominant and versatile" when every thing goes exactly his way, and Frankel is a master of placing his horses in spots where it will (Grade 1 caliber horse beating up on G3 horses while conceeding them what amounts to a token weight break ... 123lbs versus 118 is crap no matter how you try to spin it).

He was the only horse running at Lone Star .. no one else could handle that track that day.

I find it odd that you are so high on Ghostzapper for the same reasons you were so against Smarty Jones.

[Pete]

Hi all,

I'm reading this thread with some interest and a smile.

You're all missing the point - it's not about the weight. We don't do weight in thoroughbred racing anymore. Owners will and do retire their charges before they can prove or need to carry weight. You want the owners to be the sportsmen (and women) and race their horse with a handicap - for what? To devalue their already established value for your personal amusement? Get real.

Some of you are letting your dislike of the trainer affect your assessment of the horse. Some of you are running with the weight issue. Some the 'quality' of the Met field (hmm, Forest Danger won the G1 Carter in 1:20.3). Perhaps a map or guide book would help you better understand greatness when you see it, because you're missing this one.

Be thankful that Stronach has let us see Ghostzapper through his 5yo season. In this day and age that's real sporting. So what if he only races a few times a year, everytime this guy runs it's Awesome Again (pun intended).

The Metroploitan wasn't his first sign of greatness. Did you miss last year's Vosburgh Handicap (G1) when Ghostzapper spotted the leaders 1/2 the length of a football field only to run them down in 1:14.2? What did you miss in the BC Classic? Perhaps breaking the track record by 5-1/2 seconds or the :23 flat last quarter or weak competition like Roses In May and Pleasantly Perfect? I'm the first to caution about the value of the race time - unless it's against quality competition.

I don't need to be Affirmed (pun intended) to know how special Ghostzapper is. I'm honored to be able to see him run, as often as I can, even if that's not often enough.

You're all entitled to your opinions but I'm just shaking my head wondering why anyone would want to avoid the obvious? Do what you will, but I know that FOS and I will have a blast because we recognize this magnificent horse for the champion he is.

It's QUALITY, not quantity folks and there is no road map or guide book.

Regards,

Pete

[Mahubah]

The horse that Ghostzapper has probably drawn the most comparisons to is Dr. Fager, who chewed up his rivals and spit them out while lugging weights that would have given Frankel a cardiac -- and did it in sprints, routes, and on the grass to boot. With all due respect, FOS, Ghostzapper hasn't faced anything in the class of Damascus, and Damascus couldn't beat Dr. Fager without the help of a rabbit. That's the kind of top-class horse I'm talking about.

[Sam]

The horse that Ghostzapper has probably drawn the most comparisons to is Dr. Fager, who chewed up his rivals and spit them out while lugging weights that would have given Frankel a cardiac -- and did it in sprints, routes, and on the grass to boot. With all due respect, FOS, Ghostzapper hasn't faced anything in the class of Damascus, and Damascus couldn't beat Dr. Fager without the help of a rabbit. That's the kind of top-class horse I'm talking about.

Here, here.

Well said M.

Ghostzapper has a lot of talent and an excellent PR pimp, but he is NOT a "great" one ... just the best in the last half dozen years or so.

[Mahubah]

Ghostzapper has a lot of talent and an excellent PR pimp, but he is NOT a "great" one ... just the best in the last half dozen years or so.

Which is quite an accomplishment in itself.

[mary syers]

Damacus. at his best was a great horse. Dr. Fager was literally awesome. If Ghostzapper is this good, we are privledged to see him run, as often as that happens. Mary Syers

[Sam]

Ghostzapper has a lot of talent and an excellent PR pimp, but he is NOT a "great" one ... just the best in the last half dozen years or so.

Which is quite an accomplishment in itself.

Sure it is, and I'll give the horse the credit he deserves for the talent that he has (which makes him only mildy better than Md'O, IMO, because at least he's living up to the talent that he promised .. sort of), but he's not great in my mind and may never be the way Frankel whines about weight to keep the horse from hooking any real competition. The BC race is the only one that had horses in it that could have run with him, but that track is pathetic and no one handled it but him that day. His BC win was about as impressive as Consolidator's San Felipe (IOW, not at all).

To that end, I don't recall him having ever been challenged. He goes to the front and stays there and has never had to fight for a win that I can recall. I'd like to see what happens when he gets headed in the lane and has to fight on. Unfortunately, that may never happen with Frankel plotting his 'course to greatness'. The 'better' the horse gets, the more likely Frankel is to duck and dive from any real competition.

[Mahubah]

Actually, Ghostzapper has shown that he will dig down and fight; Saint Liam ran him to a neck in last year's Woodward Stakes in a splendid performance for both horses. So I can't fault him for lacking heart at all; Saint Liam in his best form is quite a good horse in his own right. I simply can't rank the competition that Ghostzapper has beaten with the competition Dr. Fager beat, to go back to the Ghostzapper--Dr. Fager comparison.

[louis finochio]

GZ inherits his ability to fight, and will not bend or break, and the heart of a champion because of his dam sire Relaunch (Fair Play) sire line.

Relaunch is the best outcross for the (Phalaris) sire line, as the Relaunch's have that fighting spirit that wont quit, they try hard whether there in front or behind.

[JCBloodstock]

Ghostzapper great now .................... perhaps,of all time - tell that to someone that knows nothing about racing - this horse can't even compare with Cigar.Ghostzapper is a horse that does not take on all comers and all weights - he is a horse meticulously trained by Bobby Frankel - when a horse runs 4 times in a year and only once in the last 6 months - this is not the mark of greatness but is the mark of a seasoned trainer being able to fit and condition a horse to a total peak thru works and I would say most likely this one isn't the soundest animal on the planet either.He's great to the extent that there is nothing else out there right now but to compare this horse to Dr. Fager is a total joke.

1968 Suburban - A field of 5 that included Dr. Fager(132 pounds),Damascus(133 pounds),In Reality,Bold Hour and Amerigo's Lady- Damascus challenged The Doctor 3 times and yet he still won the race in stakes record time of 1:59 3/5 by 2 lengths over Bold Hour with Damascus another 3 lengths back in 3rd

In The Whitney Dr. Fager won by 8 lengths giving each of his rivals 18 pounds (read that again - not 5 to 8 as Ghostzapper most recently did but EIGHTEEN POUNDS) - he win this 3/5's off the track record

In the famous world record mile he carried 134 pounds and ran fractions of 22:4 - 44:1 - 1:07:3 and a mile in 1:32:1

His next out was his 1st start on Turf in The United Nations Handicap - He took the lead from Advocater(22 pound weight difference) 3 times to win by a neck with the previous year's Champion Turf Horse Fort Marcy(16 pound weight difference) back in 3rd

His last out was in The Vosburgh carrying 139 pounds at 7 furlongs and he win it in 1:20:2 and many experts have said that he was being eased in the final furlong because he win so easy.

Frankel stated that with all the speed in horses today they can not run as frequently as in years past - ummmmm,what do you call what Dr. Fager had.......................stamina only.Dr. Fager win 18 races in 22 starts at 2,3 & 4 in the years 1966,1967 & 1968(oh and also it's a known fact that Dr. Fager had weak knees and was highly proned to colick while racing and colick did take his life at the age of 12).At the rate that Ghostzapper is going he'll have 22 starts by the age of 12.

Ghostzapper is the greatest out there for the moment - but look at how quickly Smarty Jones was forgotten.Someday there will be another Man O' War,Round Table,Damascus,Dr. Fager or Secretariat.Picking and choosing races does not make greatness - being wealthy and Kentucky Bred does not make greatness - altho it did for Horse Of The Year in 2004...........................................

[madelyn]

At the rate that Ghostzapper is going he'll have 22 starts by the age of 12.

Hear! Hear!

[llbean]

If Three Years of Racing Equals 11 Starts, then 9.5 Years of Racing would Actually Equal 36 Starts.

-llbean

[Heidilady]

Hear! Hear!

I'll second that! Amen! That he deserves to be highly regarded I don't disagree and he's clearly a huge force but I second the questioning of his soundness otherwise he could carry more weight more often. 123 is bad and 3yo run 1 1/4 under 126? He's tired after the Met Mile and needs 2 months to come back? Geez. I hear Bobby's thinking of ending his career with a grass race after the Classic. This had better be good Bobby. He's not horse racing's Mr. Right . He's our Mr. Right Now. Let's just be clear on the difference everybody. It almost makes me nauseous at the idea that we only get him 3 more times if we're lucky because he could so easily be this great great horse. They deign to show him to us on occasion and we're supposed to lap it up like hungry dogs? Greatness does me no good sitting in the barn munching on hay 99.99% of the time.

I want it understood that whatever people thought of Paulson, racing Azeri into age 6 is sporting. Retiring Ghostzapper after 4 starts at age 4 and 5 respectively is really lame. Almost as lame as taking Smarty from us so soon. We have a hunger to see a horse like this and what do they do? Race him as little as possible. People get discouraged.

Maybe Afleet Alex will do what Toccet got mismanaged out of and show us that the thoroughbred of the golden days isn't gone after all. Let's see him next year and find out! Now here's a horse the average fan's already excited about even if he might not have the same thing Ghostzapper's got going on. Frankel gripes about tv coverage? Well Alex gets it Bobby, take that. He's undoubtedly trying to keep the horse in one piece and that's honorable but dont go saying he's better than the Bid or the Doctor when he can't manage their many feats. So for nicknames we have "the Grey Ghost", "the Bid," "the Doctor," "Baby Huey," "Big Red"...let's add to that "oh highly rested One"

[StrawberryFelidos]

Retiring Ghostzapper after 4 starts at age 4 and 5 respectively is really lame. Almost as lame as taking Smarty from us so soon. We have a hunger to see a horse like this and what do they do? Race him as little as possible. People get discouraged.

Hear! Hear!
Of course, as far as I can tell they're not racing the horse for the sake of racing him anymore...now it's all about stud credentials Can't afford to let these good horses lose a race so you run them almost never (Ghost) or you retire 'em (Smarty). I mean, think of what would happen if Ghostzapper were to run more often and finish second once or twice? Oh My God! He lost once! Suddenly he's no longer the amazing super freak everyone thought, he's mortal, he's not meeting expectations that have grown exaggerated. Then suddenly people's attention begins to waver, they start looking for other possibilities for "the next Secretariat"/"the next Dr. Fager"/"the next horse who'll never lose a race and never dissapoint us".
The owners with the top horses have learned the golden rule:

How do you prevent your horse from dissapointing at the track?
Don't race him.

[pistol]

Who might you offer as more dominant and more versatile (at 6f...and 1 mile...and 1 1/4 miles) than Ghostzapper?

Ghostzapper is "dominant and versatile" when every thing goes exactly his way, and Frankel is a master of placing his horses in spots where it will (Grade 1 caliber horse beating up on G3 horses while conceeding them what amounts to a token weight break ... 123lbs versus 118 is crap no matter how you try to spin it).

I agree with Sam. Frankel is great a spotting his horses where they will win. You won't see him running where there is a field like in the Pimlico Special. People always wonder why Frankel's record at the TC races and the BC races is not so good. It is because he cannot spot them as he can the rest of the year. All the good horses show up, the only thing he could do is do a Mineshaft and not go. Last years Classic, was not a good race, the rest let GZ have an easy lead and that was all he needed. Bellamy Road ran a 120 on a loose lead, then when challenged early, had a different result. This years BC is at Belmont, so it will be a one turn Classic. I'd love to see a full field and see GZ get the far outside post and see what happens. Great horses overcome adversity, GZ has not seen any yet.