Makes You Wonder

[brogers]

After watching the Dubai World Cup yesterday and the fact that the American horses performed so well without the aid of bute or lasix, it makes you wonder why owners and trainers choose to medicate so heavily over here. It seems a waste of money if the Dubai results are any indication.

[Derring]

I thought the coverage yesterday wasn't too bad. I haven't seen racing where the camera is right up in their faces while running. I was amazed at how much money Frankie Dettori won off of 2 winning rides--I think about 1/2 a million dollars.

I'm not trying to stir the pot (too much) but I'd like to know the opinions out there---What would you do instead of using lasix?

[madelyn]

I think it's all about juju. Trainers, like their charges, are herd animals. They wouldn't want to lose a race because they didn't use lasix (salix). Ditto nasal strips. That horse's lucky saddlecloth. One thing salix does, however, is get the horse's weight down just a bit (diuretic). But statistics say that of all the horses running on salix, something like 70% of them do not need it.

Something else to consider, though, is that ALL the horses in Dubai were racing without meds. So the playing field was level. If they ALL raced here without meds, there would be no meds juju. There would be no chance a trainer could explain his horse losing a race because the winner was on salix (and was the only horse in the race who was). Anytime a horse wins a race where his trainer used something another trainer is not using, look out.

[BenB]

When you look to the racing rules down there, everything is forbidden,
also using any meds within two days prior to the race.
Nothing is allowed, just great I love that style.
Beside the racing is on sand,which is much friendlier than dirt racing.
Wonders why the best americans, did not make their presence down there.
The money to be win is more than plenty.
I suppose that a number of horses had meds not to long ago,I pressume.

Before using anything, you have to make a statement to the jockey
club, and they decide how to go on.
One thing for sure ain,t racing soon after meds giving

[louis finochio]

Any individual thats been on perscription med can tell the difference, when your body talks to you and tells you something is a miss.

When Brass Hat and Wilko were off their me before their DWC race, both were feeling thier oats and they both showed it in their performance.

Oats, Hay, and water will become a thing of the past as the new generation of trainers use the vets to the max.

[Derring]

But what if your horse came back a bleeder? If you don't want to use lasix, what are your options?

[wilf]

How about going back to nature? Most bleeders have other problems that induce stress . The medication deal over here is a fools errand creating a circle of stupidity. Give bleeders lasix and then they improve enough to go to the breeding shed to produce more bleeders. We should be aiming for a position that would improve the breed through tough and durable bloodlines. Its not going to happen as too many people have too much to lose right now and what the heck ! We cannot live forever , leave it to the next generation.

[Shammy Davis]

If you look at the numerous times horses were run in the 40's and early 50's without meds, you have got to wonder. No offense, Louis, but recent reports in the NE Journal of Medicine shows relatively little if any improvement when humans used certain popular supplements for arthritic problems. Whether it is special feed, special supplements, or prescription drugs, the cost is high. My experience is that horses don't ordinarly have long term benefit from these high $$$ remedies/drugs. What's wrong with the managed natural care of fresh water, good grains, quality hay, fresh air, managed exercise, and a room with a view. Tis the season for me to begin floating teeth. Vets often tell there clients that a routine float every 6 months is required. I figure once every 12 to 18 months. What's the difference between my approach and theirs. $$$$$$$$$$$$$. I just could never serve a client on the basis of what I needed to make in fees. It has never been in my character. I think that the increase in the use of meds is directly related to what professionals think they have to make in $$$$$, not what is required to give good care to the client's horse. As long as a dollar can be made on these remedies, there will be a horse sacrificed to the rescued shelter or meat dealer. Consider all the threads related to sires who are thought to pass on unsoundness. Today it is ROCKPORT HARBOR and his future as a stud. Tommorrow, possibly ELECTROCUTIONIST or BRASS HAT. As long as Vets are injecting horses with something on the backstretch, no one will ever know. Sorry, for the soap box diatribe. I can't control my passions. Someone please pass the popcorn.

[BenB]

Bleeding is nothing else,than a sign off severe discomfort because of stress, so that kind of horses should not belong to the racetracks at all.
nothing more nothing less, give them natural calmers and the problem will be solved.

[Heidilady]

I figured there was no need to start a Lasix thread cuz surely it's been posted on and low and behold...a current one too...

I just went ape myself reading my email. I get an "entry" for Balance from DRF and it's her Pool 3 appearance for the Oaks.

http://www.drf.com/entries/06/eCD06.html#6

The Derby pool was there too and just look at the colts too. Only one non-Lasix is Discreet Cat. I'm almost willing to put aside my annoyance with Forestry and the Dubai-to-Derby angles to root for the lil guy (cuz he ain't the most substantial physical creature out there, hence the concern of the Dubai folks to take him to the Derby). Are the BL denotations for Bute and Lasix? or just some sort of other bleeder medication? I figured the B was for Bute. They're all on something though. Shame. I remember getting kinda upset that they put Smarty on it for the Derby. He'd never needed it before and I bet they saw how the others were doing it and heaven help us if we don't do it too. What a waste. You could actually be doing harm if it ain't broke...

[madelyn]

B is for blinkers.

[mary syers]

Twenty or thirty years ago(when lasix was new) someone did a reasearch article on the use of lasix in race horses. The result was that horses that ran on lasix ran just a little better. As far as I know, no follow up research was ever done. Trainers read or heard about this article and followed their instincts to win. We use lasix in race horses because the trainers and owners believe the use of lasix enhances performance. If it does, not using lasix will handicap your horse against compitition using lasix. Anybody for supporting a new research project on lasix and racing performance? Mary Syers

PS The phisiology of lowering the blood pressure, which is the end result of lasix use, might actually increase the distance the horse can run.

[Linda in TX]

B is for blinkers.

An upper case "B" designates "Bute." The lower case "b" designates "blinkers."

[mary syers]

OK, so I should check the research before I open my mouth. Ran a Pub Med search on lasix and racing and came up with several articles that essentially say that lasix improves racing performance. Like this one:

Effect of furosemide on performance of Thoroughbreds racing in the United States and Canada.
J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1999 Sep 1;215(5):670-5.
PMID: 10476714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Apparently we use lasix in our horses because it does improve racing class. Will the foreign horses racing against us in the Derby race at a disadvantage because they don't use lasix? Mary Syers

[louis finochio]

How many foreign TB have shipped across the pond and came home victorious. Did they use lasix for their performance enchancer?