I'm a little depressed right now -I've just been to another board where the consensus is that there is absolutely no buzz on Mineshaft, that is offspring are not being well-received (don't know if it's because they are awkward looking, unathletic, generally ugly.........who knows) and that his fee can be expected to drop sharply in the not too distant future. Has anyone heard the same thing (about the quality of his foals)? Frankly, I'm stunned - I thought for sure that Mineshaft would be a star stallion. It's hard for me to believe that a horse with his looks could sire such ungainly, slow horses (if that's possible to tell at this point).
I'd appreciate any input from anyone who may know - I'll still root for him, but I'm certainly not looking forward to the sales anymore.
Thanks !
Mineshaft......
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Betsy,
I too thought Mineshaft would do very well, but his first foal photographs were unimpressive. The foals weren't horrific, but alot of them were blocky and kind of unathletic looking. They were just sort of average which at his price they shouldn't be
I think he'll prove a decent sire regardless of early sales returns. Its really hard to live up to that kind of first year stud fee.
I too thought Mineshaft would do very well, but his first foal photographs were unimpressive. The foals weren't horrific, but alot of them were blocky and kind of unathletic looking. They were just sort of average which at his price they shouldn't be
I think he'll prove a decent sire regardless of early sales returns. Its really hard to live up to that kind of first year stud fee.I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
I saw the foal pics in the Bloodhorse 
Let me see if I can hunt around and find some.
Edit: Here's one from the Stonerside site:
http://www.stonerside.com/foals/default.asp?i=496
A NY-bred one
http://www.nybreds.com/foals/foalb_05/stonewall_05b.html
Let me see if I can hunt around and find some.
Edit: Here's one from the Stonerside site:
http://www.stonerside.com/foals/default.asp?i=496
A NY-bred one
http://www.nybreds.com/foals/foalb_05/stonewall_05b.html
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
Thanks, Austique. I know nothing about conformation - the first foal looks fine and the 2nd one is lying down. It does say somethinig about Lane's End's support or lack thereof of Mineshaft that a mare like Ms. Forte was able to find his way in his book. She's got no pedigree to speak of and I don't recall her at all as being any kind of racehorse. I don't even remember one big name/big pedigreed mare sent to Mineshaft- I understand they don't have the mares Juddmonte does (for Empire Maker), but really - they could have done better.
I know that talent comes in all shapes and sizes - his foals could be ugly, awkward and nothing special, but they may end up (as I expected) running like the wind. In any case, it appears he will not be a good sales sire.
I know that talent comes in all shapes and sizes - his foals could be ugly, awkward and nothing special, but they may end up (as I expected) running like the wind. In any case, it appears he will not be a good sales sire.
First off, I know nothing of conformation or even who Mineshaft was until last November. My fiance was in awe of a few of his foals. She loved one colt which is saying something because she only has an eye for fillies. I would imagine, from the limited knowledge of pedigrees and of his race record, his foals should be maturing late and in doing so developing later. I wouldnt be too concerned with it now.
I'm with you Betsy. I thought he would be the next superstar stallion. I saw him last fall and I don't really care what the babies look like. I just hope his stud fee drops a ton, or I win the lottery, 'cause I'd love to be able to send a mare to him. I went to Lanes End to see Pleasantly Perfect and a couple of others, and just happened to see Mineshaft out of his stall b4 we left. He took my breath away.
"Most people hate the taste of beer to begin with. It is, however, a prejudice that many people have been able to overcome."-Winston Churchill
The mystery deepens...
I checked his stats after seeing he only had 2 weanlings go through the ring out of a first crop of 75 or so. He is booking more lightly than say the uber-popular Dixie Union, but had I think 104 mares in his first book and 102 mares in the second. Not paltry by anyone but Coolmore's terms. The two weanlings that sold did okay for themselves and his early yearling returns are maybe a bit soft for a horse at that fee, but they are not horribly low and the yearlings sold early in the year typically aren't the best of the crop. Either folks are so impressed they are holding the foals (unlikely given what Betsy heard), the foals are just a bit backward and slow to mature and sellers are waiting until they are yearlings (probably pretty likely), or the foals are just heinous and are chained in a basement somewhere never to see the light of day (probably unlikely).
Like I said the early ads Lanes End ran showed foals that were pretty average and a bit plain and maybe thats contributing to the lack of buzz or maybe its the high profile retirements that came after him. Who can say until September?
I still think he'll be a pretty salty sire.
I checked his stats after seeing he only had 2 weanlings go through the ring out of a first crop of 75 or so. He is booking more lightly than say the uber-popular Dixie Union, but had I think 104 mares in his first book and 102 mares in the second. Not paltry by anyone but Coolmore's terms. The two weanlings that sold did okay for themselves and his early yearling returns are maybe a bit soft for a horse at that fee, but they are not horribly low and the yearlings sold early in the year typically aren't the best of the crop. Either folks are so impressed they are holding the foals (unlikely given what Betsy heard), the foals are just a bit backward and slow to mature and sellers are waiting until they are yearlings (probably pretty likely), or the foals are just heinous and are chained in a basement somewhere never to see the light of day (probably unlikely).
Like I said the early ads Lanes End ran showed foals that were pretty average and a bit plain and maybe thats contributing to the lack of buzz or maybe its the high profile retirements that came after him. Who can say until September?
I still think he'll be a pretty salty sire.I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
Keeneland and Saratoga are the preferred yearling sales for expensive sires. The only reason to sell many weanlings is culling, need for cash, or to showcase those that look precocious. The latter reason is why most of the high-priced weanlings sell, usually by sprinting sires or large-sized stallions.
A. P. Indy and his sons are not generally precocious types for weanling sales. They take time to develop. The breeding and buying public is just being impatient regarding this family, and that of Storm Cat's sons; as some others are the precocious types and stand out from the crowd early.
A. P. Indy and his sons are not generally precocious types for weanling sales. They take time to develop. The breeding and buying public is just being impatient regarding this family, and that of Storm Cat's sons; as some others are the precocious types and stand out from the crowd early.
Rocking H
Henthorn,
I understand your point of AP Indys not looking the part early and I know a lot can change from month to month(and day to day) on yearlings but.....
I think you have to put the Fasig July Sale as a premire sale and also as the buzz sale to get people excited about your stallion. Most major stallions of 2004 have at least 1 horse in that sale. The fact that the 100k stallion does not have one out of 71 registred foals in that sale after having 4 in the Jan 2006 sales still says a lot to me.
Rock Slide has one in there. Even Milwaukee Brew has 2 in that sale. MB does not strike me as a stallion that would get early type of looks and runners. MB results thus far has been dismal on the sales front for his yearlings.
Of course time will tell if Mineshaft will be the next great or a Lemon Drop Kid.
I understand your point of AP Indys not looking the part early and I know a lot can change from month to month(and day to day) on yearlings but.....
I think you have to put the Fasig July Sale as a premire sale and also as the buzz sale to get people excited about your stallion. Most major stallions of 2004 have at least 1 horse in that sale. The fact that the 100k stallion does not have one out of 71 registred foals in that sale after having 4 in the Jan 2006 sales still says a lot to me.
Rock Slide has one in there. Even Milwaukee Brew has 2 in that sale. MB does not strike me as a stallion that would get early type of looks and runners. MB results thus far has been dismal on the sales front for his yearlings.
Of course time will tell if Mineshaft will be the next great or a Lemon Drop Kid.
HR LLC,
Don't pick on Lemon Drop Kid!
I agree its pretty odd to not see him have at least 1 in the sale. He was the marquee retirement of that year. The sale is a little weak to me, so its possible they are waiting til September, but at least 4 people thought they had Mineshaft's ready to roll in January and 3 of them were profitable. One brought $9,000 
It must'a been some kind of ugly.
Since he hasn't sold that many...here's a rundown
Yearlings (all KEE JAN)
$9,000
bay colt out of Ms. Forte born April 18th.
Dam is stakes-placed and a stakes producer. She has four foals of racing age including a 2006 2yo and produced 1 winner, a stakes winner of $299,428 who was GR III placed. First 4 dams are blacktype producers.
$150,000
bay filly out of Prom Knight born April 15th
Half sister to Voloponi, a GR III placed mare, and 2 other winners. 2 of first 3 dams are graded stakes winner producers.
$260,000
chestnut filly out of Boom Town Girl born March 17th
Dam is a stakes winning, GR II placed daughter of Unbridled and has 2 foals of racing age with no starters. Third dam is a multiple graded stake producer.
$150,000
bay filly out of Extraterrestral born April 15th
Dam is a multiple stakes winner producer (okay one was in Japan) by Storm Bird and is a half to one of my faves Judge Angelucci as well 2 other GR I winners.
Weanlings
$160,000
bay filly out of Are You Up born January 29th
First foal of a stakes-winning, GR III placed dam. Female family has spotty blacktype. 3rd dam was GR I placed.
$350,000
bay colt out of Karasavina (IRE) born March 4th
Dam is a stakes-producing full sister to Desert Secret (IRE) making this colt's third dam no less than My Charmer
There were two that were outs at the sale, the Extraterrestral filly and a colt out of Better Than Honour.
Overall not so bad aside from the $9,000 colt which one assumes had issues that led to that price. If you bred to him, you generally made a little money. It is odd he didn't have a bigger presence and has no FT yearlings, but maybe they'll pop up at KEE SEPT.
Don't pick on Lemon Drop Kid!
I agree its pretty odd to not see him have at least 1 in the sale. He was the marquee retirement of that year. The sale is a little weak to me, so its possible they are waiting til September, but at least 4 people thought they had Mineshaft's ready to roll in January and 3 of them were profitable. One brought $9,000 It must'a been some kind of ugly.
Since he hasn't sold that many...here's a rundown
Yearlings (all KEE JAN)
$9,000
bay colt out of Ms. Forte born April 18th.
Dam is stakes-placed and a stakes producer. She has four foals of racing age including a 2006 2yo and produced 1 winner, a stakes winner of $299,428 who was GR III placed. First 4 dams are blacktype producers.
$150,000
bay filly out of Prom Knight born April 15th
Half sister to Voloponi, a GR III placed mare, and 2 other winners. 2 of first 3 dams are graded stakes winner producers.
$260,000
chestnut filly out of Boom Town Girl born March 17th
Dam is a stakes winning, GR II placed daughter of Unbridled and has 2 foals of racing age with no starters. Third dam is a multiple graded stake producer.
$150,000
bay filly out of Extraterrestral born April 15th
Dam is a multiple stakes winner producer (okay one was in Japan) by Storm Bird and is a half to one of my faves Judge Angelucci as well 2 other GR I winners.
Weanlings
$160,000
bay filly out of Are You Up born January 29th
First foal of a stakes-winning, GR III placed dam. Female family has spotty blacktype. 3rd dam was GR I placed.
$350,000
bay colt out of Karasavina (IRE) born March 4th
Dam is a stakes-producing full sister to Desert Secret (IRE) making this colt's third dam no less than My Charmer
There were two that were outs at the sale, the Extraterrestral filly and a colt out of Better Than Honour.
Overall not so bad aside from the $9,000 colt which one assumes had issues that led to that price. If you bred to him, you generally made a little money. It is odd he didn't have a bigger presence and has no FT yearlings, but maybe they'll pop up at KEE SEPT.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
HR LLC wrote:Henthorn,
I understand your point of AP Indys not looking the part early and I know a lot can change from month to month(and day to day) on yearlings but.....
I think you have to put the Fasig July Sale as a premire sale and also as the buzz sale to get people excited about your stallion. Most major stallions of 2004 have at least 1 horse in that sale. The fact that the 100k stallion does not have one out of 71 registred foals in that sale after having 4 in the Jan 2006 sales still says a lot to me.
Rock Slide has one in there. Even Milwaukee Brew has 2 in that sale. MB does not strike me as a stallion that would get early type of looks and runners. MB results thus far has been dismal on the sales front for his yearlings.
Of course time will tell if Mineshaft will be the next great or a Lemon Drop Kid.
Many of Mineshaft's best yearlings are probably owned or being consigned by Lane's End, and they stopped going to the July sale a few years ago. The Fasig-Tipton sale doesn't have the cachet or prestige of a Keeneland sale, so I'll wager that if Keeneland July was being held, Mineshaft would have a few in there. It's very possible that his best yearlings are being saved for September; I hope so, anyway.