Need suggestions for newly acquired Kris S mare (Gold Coast Kris). She's due any day on a 2/11 cover to Mister Manx (not our mating). The mare is big and strapping - looking for a comercial mating for fall 07 sales ring (maybe) or weanling sales next year. Located in KY.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Kris S mare
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
Re: Kris S mare
JDufort wrote:Need suggestions for newly acquired Kris S mare (Gold Coast Kris). She's due any day on a 2/11 cover to Mister Manx (not our mating). The mare is big and strapping - looking for a comercial mating for fall 07 sales ring (maybe) or weanling sales next year. Located in KY.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
price range?
eta
eeeeeeeh... That's not a very commercially appealing pedigree nor does it look like it's worth all that much. She and her sibs just aren't producing that much. All the foals under the first two dams are mediocre at best and so are the foals they are producing.
I don't know what kind of price range you're looking at, but I wouldn't suggest much more than $5k and even that's stretching it.
Is It True would be the first horse I'd look at then maybe Pioneering, Explicit, and Crafty Shaw.
Interesting mare. RNA ($0) at Keeneland, and in foal to WHO??? 
She's a '94 mare and, like several of mine, has just never been given the chance to produce a racehorse. Your best bet might be to look at an inexpensive first year sire in the hopes of producing something you could at least break even on.. how about Ten Centuries for $2K? The pedigree offers Mr. Prospector and Sharpen Up, which have both worked with Kris S in the past. And there is Buckpasser.
But he is unraced, might want to ask Buck Pond about that, and physically inspect him first. I'm a FIRM believer in looking at the conformation of the mare and the stallion to visualize the offspring BEFORE committing to pay the stud fee.
She's a '94 mare and, like several of mine, has just never been given the chance to produce a racehorse. Your best bet might be to look at an inexpensive first year sire in the hopes of producing something you could at least break even on.. how about Ten Centuries for $2K? The pedigree offers Mr. Prospector and Sharpen Up, which have both worked with Kris S in the past. And there is Buckpasser.
But he is unraced, might want to ask Buck Pond about that, and physically inspect him first. I'm a FIRM believer in looking at the conformation of the mare and the stallion to visualize the offspring BEFORE committing to pay the stud fee.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
I'm a FIRM believer in looking at the conformation of the mare and the stallion to visualize the offspring BEFORE committing to pay the stud fee.
Thanks Madelyn... I am now standing and applauding... I absolutely agree and definitely could not have said it any better myself.
If my conference goes another 10 minutes, I might even come up with a stallion or two for this mare...
I want to see Ten Centuries make it...
I tend to agree with Sam, the sales ring could be tough... so, let's look at ways to limit our fees...
I am assuming you are looking to put her in-foal to something more commercial then spin her back in a sale in the fall. If so, I would try to get a mare share arrangement. Many of the bigger boys won't be interested, but some of the smaller ones may, especially if they can be the consignor for the sale.
If spinning the mare, I don't know that I would worry too much about the mating... I would simply want to get the best, most fashionable, most supported stallion I could for the least amount of money.
If you think you may keep the mare for a year, get a foal, then sell both or just the foal (as a weanling), I would look for something similar from a stallion, but I would add in confomation... you will need a good-looking, sizable foal, preferably flashy.
There isn't really anything in the new sires that I could recommend for $5k or under... (good lord these stallions are overpriced)... but at $7500 Sir Shackleton or Forest Grove might fit the bill.
I would seriously look at Forest Grove because Airdrie continuously finds support for their first and second year stallions. Now, I am not saying I love the mating... or even the stallion... but I like the potential they may give you to make a $$.
Another way to go would be to look at the stallions with their first foals headed to the track and try to pick a Distorted Humor or Elusive Quality... if you pick right... you win. However, if you pick wrong... you are where you are now.
In any case, I'd try for a share of some kind... and I would heed Sam's message... and if I were somewhat certain I may try to get a foal out of the mare, I would definitely, definitely remember Madelyn's thoughts.
I tend to agree with Sam, the sales ring could be tough... so, let's look at ways to limit our fees...
I am assuming you are looking to put her in-foal to something more commercial then spin her back in a sale in the fall. If so, I would try to get a mare share arrangement. Many of the bigger boys won't be interested, but some of the smaller ones may, especially if they can be the consignor for the sale.
If spinning the mare, I don't know that I would worry too much about the mating... I would simply want to get the best, most fashionable, most supported stallion I could for the least amount of money.
If you think you may keep the mare for a year, get a foal, then sell both or just the foal (as a weanling), I would look for something similar from a stallion, but I would add in confomation... you will need a good-looking, sizable foal, preferably flashy.
There isn't really anything in the new sires that I could recommend for $5k or under... (good lord these stallions are overpriced)... but at $7500 Sir Shackleton or Forest Grove might fit the bill.
I would seriously look at Forest Grove because Airdrie continuously finds support for their first and second year stallions. Now, I am not saying I love the mating... or even the stallion... but I like the potential they may give you to make a $$.
Another way to go would be to look at the stallions with their first foals headed to the track and try to pick a Distorted Humor or Elusive Quality... if you pick right... you win. However, if you pick wrong... you are where you are now.
In any case, I'd try for a share of some kind... and I would heed Sam's message... and if I were somewhat certain I may try to get a foal out of the mare, I would definitely, definitely remember Madelyn's thoughts.
So... if the question were breed to race, would your opinions of the mare change? We saw a good looking individual, perhaps with not the best matings chosen to produce an actually useful horse. Some nice "old blood" up close, with 4 lines of female family #4 coming through from the 4th generation - and thought perhaps to seek a stallion who
a. had multiple #4 female family lines (especially 4-d) and
b. had some chance at fashionability and was
c. conformationally compatible with her
Having said that, we are, of course, just learning. I love the honesty of thos forum - bring it on...
a. had multiple #4 female family lines (especially 4-d) and
b. had some chance at fashionability and was
c. conformationally compatible with her
Having said that, we are, of course, just learning. I love the honesty of thos forum - bring it on...
JDufort wrote:So... if the question were breed to race, would your opinions of the mare change?
For me? Not much. I just wouldn't have very high expectations for the foal. IOW, I wouldn't breed this mare thinking I'm going to get a Derby winner from her... but you could maybe get an honest low level allowance horse with the right stallion.
My suggestions wouldn't change either... except I'd be more inclined to poke Madelyn for her opinion on Rocking Trick's suitability. Is It True would still be my first pick, though.
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foxtale
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Breed Kris S back to Kris S....... (on stallions' dams side)
Look at Sort It Out by Out Of Place-Vex, Kris S. ( www.foxtalestud.com ) he stands for $2000 and is in PA , Stonerside Stables first venture into the PA-Bred market. Also, look into having your foal a PA-BRED... now is the time to get into this market, since it is fattened up by slots revenue!
Let us help you to take advantage of lucrative PENNSYLVANIA Bred Breeding and Racing Incentive Programs worth over $20 MILLION annually.
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Re: Breed Kris S back to Kris S....... (on stallions' dams s
foxtale wrote:Look at Sort It Out by Out Of Place-Vex, Kris S.
You're suggesting breeding 3x2 Kris S.
Not just no but HELL NO!
I can't even begin to explain why that's a bad ... strike that... HORRIFICALLY BAD idea.
Sometimes folks like foxtale are just spamming. They have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER about horse breeding and are disguising cheap (free) advertising in an advice format in an otherwise serious discussion.
Of course there are the Deliverance-types out there, maybe foxtale is one of those whose grandfather is also his great-grandfather. He'd be a believer then, after all, look how foxtale turned out.
Of course there are the Deliverance-types out there, maybe foxtale is one of those whose grandfather is also his great-grandfather. He'd be a believer then, after all, look how foxtale turned out.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
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foxtale
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Sort It Out to Kris S. Mare
Sorry to offend, however your mares bottom side has the - The RIBOT SIRELINE:
* OUT OF PRIDE, 99, m (Proud Truth, Grey Dawn II): $300,000, Sara's Success St, etc.... also
Interestingly, both Out Of Place and Kris S are direct tail-male descendants of the powerful stallion Turn-To. The question, then, becomes, in terms of seeking mares for Sort It Out, should breeders seek mares who bring additional Kris S/Roberto blood to the mix? While that close inbreeding might be considered overkill by some, one idea might be to look for mares whose first or second dams spring from the Turn-To sireline, but NOT via Roberto or Cox's Ridge. Possible sirelines to seek would include Halo (and his sons), Smarten (and his sons), and Cure the Blues (and his sons). This would provide a third strain of Turn-To blood from a non-Roberto, non-Cox's Ridge branch.
* OUT OF PRIDE, 99, m (Proud Truth, Grey Dawn II): $300,000, Sara's Success St, etc.... also
Interestingly, both Out Of Place and Kris S are direct tail-male descendants of the powerful stallion Turn-To. The question, then, becomes, in terms of seeking mares for Sort It Out, should breeders seek mares who bring additional Kris S/Roberto blood to the mix? While that close inbreeding might be considered overkill by some, one idea might be to look for mares whose first or second dams spring from the Turn-To sireline, but NOT via Roberto or Cox's Ridge. Possible sirelines to seek would include Halo (and his sons), Smarten (and his sons), and Cure the Blues (and his sons). This would provide a third strain of Turn-To blood from a non-Roberto, non-Cox's Ridge branch.
Let us help you to take advantage of lucrative PENNSYLVANIA Bred Breeding and Racing Incentive Programs worth over $20 MILLION annually.
Standing in 2010: www.foxtalestud.com
CAPITANO
RUBIYAT
SMART GUY
Standing in 2010: www.foxtalestud.com
CAPITANO
RUBIYAT
SMART GUY
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foxtale
- Maiden Special Weight
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:50 pm
- Location: Coopersburg, Pennsylvania
- Contact:
Sort It Out to Kris S. Mare
Sorry to offend, however your mares bottom side has the - The RIBOT SIRELINE:
* OUT OF PRIDE, 99, m (Proud Truth, Grey Dawn II): $300,000, Sara's Success St, etc.... also
Interestingly, both Out Of Place and Kris S are direct tail-male descendants of the powerful stallion Turn-To. The question, then, becomes, in terms of seeking mares for Sort It Out, should breeders seek mares who bring additional Kris S/Roberto blood to the mix? While that close inbreeding might be considered overkill by some, one idea might be to look for mares whose first or second dams spring from the Turn-To sireline, but NOT via Roberto or Cox's Ridge. Possible sirelines to seek would include Halo (and his sons), Smarten (and his sons), and Cure the Blues (and his sons). This would provide a third strain of Turn-To blood from a non-Roberto, non-Cox's Ridge branch.
* OUT OF PRIDE, 99, m (Proud Truth, Grey Dawn II): $300,000, Sara's Success St, etc.... also
Interestingly, both Out Of Place and Kris S are direct tail-male descendants of the powerful stallion Turn-To. The question, then, becomes, in terms of seeking mares for Sort It Out, should breeders seek mares who bring additional Kris S/Roberto blood to the mix? While that close inbreeding might be considered overkill by some, one idea might be to look for mares whose first or second dams spring from the Turn-To sireline, but NOT via Roberto or Cox's Ridge. Possible sirelines to seek would include Halo (and his sons), Smarten (and his sons), and Cure the Blues (and his sons). This would provide a third strain of Turn-To blood from a non-Roberto, non-Cox's Ridge branch.
Let us help you to take advantage of lucrative PENNSYLVANIA Bred Breeding and Racing Incentive Programs worth over $20 MILLION annually.
Standing in 2010: www.foxtalestud.com
CAPITANO
RUBIYAT
SMART GUY
Standing in 2010: www.foxtalestud.com
CAPITANO
RUBIYAT
SMART GUY
JDufort, actually it would make a difference to me... I would be looking very, very closely at physical type, making sure the mare and stallion would be complimentary, and the weaknesses of one could be improved by the other.
I would look at Slew City Slew, for all the obvious reasons that have been referenced in other posts. Then I would probably horrify everyone who posts here by looking at Brahms. I believe, if bred properly, he can get you a good one... and he is versatile... and his pedigree has some good points with your mare. I would also consider the yet to be proven Sunday Break... I have liked some of his foals that I have seen... and we had a very good one. I wasn't crazy about him, but used him anyway... but now I would be surprised if he doesn't surprise.
I definitely would consider Rocking Trick. I guess I swallowed the cool-aid when I visited Madelyn’s place last summer. He is a well-balanced, athletic individual with a good amount of quality about him. He also didn’t exactly have the best opportunity to show his stuff here in the States, totally not his fault… his connections did him more harm than good. I think Rocky will get sound athletes, and that is what I would want in a racehorse.
Others I would consider would include Sahm and maybe Flatter. Because Sam knows the Kris S.’s so well, I would look into Is It True.
I guess I would have to also consider Capetown and Jump Start… although they are probably a little “deep” for this mare. Again, many whom post here will shudder at these suggestions, however I had really nice foals out of each and I love some things about their pedigrees.
I would look at Slew City Slew, for all the obvious reasons that have been referenced in other posts. Then I would probably horrify everyone who posts here by looking at Brahms. I believe, if bred properly, he can get you a good one... and he is versatile... and his pedigree has some good points with your mare. I would also consider the yet to be proven Sunday Break... I have liked some of his foals that I have seen... and we had a very good one. I wasn't crazy about him, but used him anyway... but now I would be surprised if he doesn't surprise.
I definitely would consider Rocking Trick. I guess I swallowed the cool-aid when I visited Madelyn’s place last summer. He is a well-balanced, athletic individual with a good amount of quality about him. He also didn’t exactly have the best opportunity to show his stuff here in the States, totally not his fault… his connections did him more harm than good. I think Rocky will get sound athletes, and that is what I would want in a racehorse.
Others I would consider would include Sahm and maybe Flatter. Because Sam knows the Kris S.’s so well, I would look into Is It True.
I guess I would have to also consider Capetown and Jump Start… although they are probably a little “deep” for this mare. Again, many whom post here will shudder at these suggestions, however I had really nice foals out of each and I love some things about their pedigrees.
I should note, the only reason it doesn't make much of a difference to me is because, IMO anything breeding for less than $10k is automatically a breed to race prospect. While there are some stallions at that level who have some commercial appeal, there aren't many of them... that's because true commercial stallions don't stay that cheap for long.
Stallions
If you want to exploit the Storm Cat/Kris S nick, then three suggestions come to mind, all brand new for 2007.
1. British Blue at Stonewall returns the Hail To Reason and His Majesty.(5K)
2. Osidy at Spendthrift (4K) is out of a champion Germany mare from a good family. 16.1, big hip, not the greatest front end but not the worse.
3. Forest Grove at Airdrie (7.5K) has the most speed of the three and your mare needs some speed added to her pedigree. Airdrie also does a nice job of supporting their new stallions.
1. British Blue at Stonewall returns the Hail To Reason and His Majesty.(5K)
2. Osidy at Spendthrift (4K) is out of a champion Germany mare from a good family. 16.1, big hip, not the greatest front end but not the worse.
3. Forest Grove at Airdrie (7.5K) has the most speed of the three and your mare needs some speed added to her pedigree. Airdrie also does a nice job of supporting their new stallions.