TIZBUD as a sire

Winnie · Postby **Winnie** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:19 pm

How about this one? Do you think he will be marketable and produce nice runners like his full brother?

What are his conformation faults if any?

FOS · Postby **FOS** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:57 pm

hi Winnie

Like any other thoroughbred (including the teaser) that has the wherewithall to impregnate a mare...Tizbud might come up with a good one, even a couple of good ones. That said...I would describe him as little more than a minor stakes-winner whose champion full bro (Tiznow) has had all the opportunity a young stallion could ask for, and...All Things Considered (including quality and quantity of opportunity)...is arguably (and in general) not particularly impressive as a sire (at least from my perspective). Look at Tiznow's stats/numbers/accomplishments (or lack therof) etc and decide for yourself. I suggest that weak might be an understatement.

Regardless...if you believe that Tizbud might best enhances your mare's chances to produce the results you're looking for...go for it. Other than that, I'd recommend you consider other possible options.

Good luck.

Respectfully

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:07 pm

I'm for anything that helps keep Man o'War blood alive - as soon as it's ready to disappear, it seems to re-emerge somehow.

Tizbid might outdo his brother - Vice Regent was a lesser brother to Viceregal on the racetrack, and how many years was he Canada's premier stallion? Viceregal never came close to Vice Regent's success.

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:52 pm

Tizbud had a lot of talent but could never get past his sore shins. I would think he will get enough good mares standing at Harris Farms to determine his sire power but only time will tell.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:00 pm

I generally agree with FOS but here I beg to differ. Tiznow was a B.C. Classic winner (not a sprint distance) and was at his best as an OLDER horse. Why do we expect that his get will be spectacular earners as juveniles and younger horses? Here we're evaluating his offspring based only on his first two crops (right now he's 16 on the Bloodhorse second crop sire list). Given Tiznow's race record (he himself did not race at 2), it is remarkable, even although his stats are skewed by Folklore, that he emerged at the top of the first crop sire list for 2005, and produced a 2 yo B.C. winner. Wheelaway is another new stallion who's being lambasted on another thread. We can't keep writing off young stallions who don't produce right away, we should evaluate them based on criteria that don't favor juveniles and sprints. Not every sire produces offspring that mature fast enough to be successful as juveniles. Of course, many new stallions are overpriced by their handlers (although an admittedly cursory check of sales suggests that Tiznow on average is currently on the profitable side of breed to sell) but this disturbing trend of writing them off based on their first couple of crops is what is helping send useful sires off to foreign lands and shrinking the number of available sirelines for North American breeding. Tiznow is an important representative of the Godolphin sire line and we should give him a chance.

Mahubah · Postby **Mahubah** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:47 am

I recall Tizbud as a tall, elegant, scopy, well-balanced individual with pretty clean legs except for an ugly lump on one fore shin with pins sticking out of it -- this was when he was just a few weeks off the track, and I'm betting that horse had more than "sore shins" bothering him; wouldn't have been surprised to have learned that he had a saucer fracture. This is only a guess, but I think this horse was never given time to recover 100% from whatever injury he originally sustained and kept compounding the original problem. He was G2-placed in only his third lifetime start aganst far more experienced rivals and I think would probably have been capable of winning a graded race if completely healthy and fit. Had a very pleasant, sensible disposition, too -- much like Tiznow himself. (When I saw Tiznow at WinStar Farm this last fall, they let me pet him and get my picture taken with him, and he was playing happily with his lead shank in his stall while his groom was picking the straw out of his tail.)

Any unproven sire is a risky choice, but it looks like the Harris Farms people are giving Tizbud a decent chance to be the successor to his sire -- this is a good enough looking horse that he might turn out a very good sire of sport and show horses if he doesn't pan out as a racing sire. Bill from WA has seen some of his foals, I think, and been favorably impressed (hope I'm not mangling your impressions, Bill!), so we'll just have to see whether he gets some runners.

Winnie · Postby **Winnie** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:18 pm

Thank you Mahubah for your evaluation.

So you say he has nice conformation? I have a friend tell me to go look at him in person, not telling why I should. But making it sound like he has something seriously wrong with his front legs other than the pins in his shins.

I want to send a mare to him, a Storm Cat granddaughter if I do not end up selling her first. I was told she nicks extremely well with this line both Relaunch and Seattle Slew. And Gone West.
I agree that he would have been a much better race horse than he was if he didn't have that shin problem. I think he had just as much talent as both his full brothers, Tiznow and Budroyal. He certainly has a strong enough female family and the blood is defintely there . And I also fell Harris Farm will promote him with good mares. I heard he bred only 35 last year though.

What kind of mare would fit him the best and what distance?

Mahubah · Postby **Mahubah** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:48 am

Storm Cat appears to be working well for Tiznow (both Folklore and Tiz Wonderful are from Storm Cat-line mares) and I might also look at the Hail to Reason male line, which has worked well with other Relaunch-line sires; Halo might be a particularly good choice as he also complements the inbreeding to Northern Dancer. Your friend may be thinking of knees as a possible issue as a tendency to being slightly back at the knee is common in the Relaunch male line -- I don't remember this being an issue with Tizbud but I last saw him nearly two years ago, so memory may not be totally reliable. I would certainly advise inspecting any stallion before breeding to him if possible.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:35 am

Seems like a Repriced mare would work really well with Tiznow and Tizbud.. not that I have one.

Winnie · Postby **Winnie** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:48 am

Seems like a Repriced mare would work really well with Tiznow and Tizbud.. not that I have one

I was told to stay away from Roberto lines, maybe for the female line but not sire. Deputy Minsister was good nick for her also.

Not only does Storm Cat work well for Tiznow but their FULL sister has produced a SW by Disticntive Cat (Storm Cat) and a SPW by Western Fame, who carries Secretariat like Storm Cat does.

So this nick works on all kinds of levels

I am going to go ahead and book her to him, I feel real good about this.

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:10 pm

Winnie wrote:Thank you Mahubah for your evaluation.

So you say he has nice conformation? I have a friend tell me to go look at him in person, not telling why I should. But making it sound like he has something seriously wrong with his front legs other than the pins in his shins.

I want to send a mare to him, a Storm Cat granddaughter if I do not end up selling her first. I was told she nicks extremely well with this line both Relaunch and Seattle Slew. And Gone West.
I agree that he would have been a much better race horse than he was if he didn't have that shin problem. I think he had just as much talent as both his full brothers, Tiznow and Budroyal. He certainly has a strong enough female family and the blood is defintely there . And I also fell Harris Farm will promote him with good mares. I heard he bred only 35 last year though.

What kind of mare would fit him the best and what distance?

LOL does anyone else remember when 35 mares was a full book?

Winnie · Postby **Winnie** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:00 pm

60 to 100 would be considered a full book in Ca. But 36 (it is 36 not 35) is way better than 7 and the manager assured me they took some very nice mares from their farm to him.

Even though, I understand your humor :wink:

I see you are from Fl. All I can say is may your loss be our gain.

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:58 pm

Winnie wrote:60 to 100 would be considered a full book in Ca. But 36 (it is 36 not 35) is way better than 7 and the manager assured me they took some very nice mares from their farm to him.

Even though, I understand your humor

I see you are from Fl. All I can say is may your loss be our gain.

Yeah wasn't happy to see him go (not that I could afford a decent mare to breed to him anyway but still...) ON the other hand I was just happy he stayed in the USA! :shock:

NorthStar · Postby **NorthStar** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:57 pm

This is a good thread on a stallion I was encouraged to consider. Has anyone bred to him or seen him since he moved to CA?

My mares are a bit heavy-bodied. Would that be a bad thing if Tizbud is "leggy". Does he have any conformation issues to be concerned with passing on to the foal?

Thanks.