nicks for stormy atlantic daughter
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
nicks for stormy atlantic daughter
anybody have any thoughts/experience on crosses (kentucky stallions) for daughter of stormy atlantic? for commercial sale. mare's bottom side is My Time to Fly
The first week of March is late? Oh well. Check out this season auction, there are probably going to be some great values. There are quite a few in KY. http://www.starquine.com/results.asp?horse_type_id=7
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
hi madelyn...hello maven
What is your definition of quality? Regardless...many mares of many descriptions have NOT yet been booked.
Fair comment...but you might agree, sometimes (if not often) there are possibilities in March and June too, for some of the same reasons you offered.
Respectfully
maven wrote:Mares of quality have already been booked...
What is your definition of quality? Regardless...many mares of many descriptions have NOT yet been booked.
madelyn wrote:A lot of stallion books open up again in April-May as mares who were booked fail to show up to be bred due to dystocia, death, etc. etc. Often times there can be great deals available as at that point, the numbers count more than the fee.
Fair comment...but you might agree, sometimes (if not often) there are possibilities in March and June too, for some of the same reasons you offered.
Respectfully
Young stallions who are good commercial prospects fill early. IF openings arise, which there usually are, its given to the best mares possible. I was just being realistic with this filly in question.
To answer your question, Gemini, I do believe Strong Contender will be "strong" at the yearling sales in return of stud fee investment. His sire's fee keeps rising and he has an amazing physical. I booked a winning Afternoon Deelites half to a Gr 1 winner and im expecting a commercial foal next year.
To answer your question, Gemini, I do believe Strong Contender will be "strong" at the yearling sales in return of stud fee investment. His sire's fee keeps rising and he has an amazing physical. I booked a winning Afternoon Deelites half to a Gr 1 winner and im expecting a commercial foal next year.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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Ehhh....what are your expectations? You say you're looking to sell...but where?
If I'm not mistaken, you own Atlantic Affair (2001), who was offered for sale at Canter Illinois for $2500 not too long ago (link here: http://tinyurl.com/yv9dq8). Her female line is putting out some sound hard-knockers, but the closest black-type I could find is a stakes-placed gelding under that mare's 2nd dam. This mare's half sister Irishforgold is a useful allowance winner at Beulah whose last run was for a $5000 tag at Mountaineer. Her half sister Alaskan Beauty was running in claiming races at Ellis Park and (maybe) Turfway. I couldn't find any information about her other half siblings or any production of her sisters. Atlantic Affair is the only one of them with a "name" sire.
Moving back a generation, this mare will have no help on her page from her dam's full sister, My Time To Shine, as that mare is breeding western pleasure QH's in Florida (Google her). Going back one more generation, the 2nd dam produced 5 winners, including a stakes-placed runner. That mare, Kilronan Light, has several sisters who produced hard-knockers and some blacktype but it's a lot of cheap blacktype. You can see a page of a relative here: http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2007/0211/158.pdf
I don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm having trouble seeing sending her to a commercial Kentucky stallion. I can't see spending more than a $5000 stud fee for her (unless there is something big on her page that I have completely missed). The stallions standing for $5k or less in Kentucky are generally less than commercial. Stormy Atlantic is hot right now, but he's not proven as a broodmare sire and I don't know if he'll be enough to make up for the lack of page.
If you took this mare to anybody in Kentucky, I'd see if you can get her to Pioneering. The mating would be 2x4 to Terlingua through a pair of quality individuals, he's improving his mares, it brings Mr Prospector into the mix, and a couple of nice ones have sold well regionally.
If I'm not mistaken, you own Atlantic Affair (2001), who was offered for sale at Canter Illinois for $2500 not too long ago (link here: http://tinyurl.com/yv9dq8). Her female line is putting out some sound hard-knockers, but the closest black-type I could find is a stakes-placed gelding under that mare's 2nd dam. This mare's half sister Irishforgold is a useful allowance winner at Beulah whose last run was for a $5000 tag at Mountaineer. Her half sister Alaskan Beauty was running in claiming races at Ellis Park and (maybe) Turfway. I couldn't find any information about her other half siblings or any production of her sisters. Atlantic Affair is the only one of them with a "name" sire.
Moving back a generation, this mare will have no help on her page from her dam's full sister, My Time To Shine, as that mare is breeding western pleasure QH's in Florida (Google her). Going back one more generation, the 2nd dam produced 5 winners, including a stakes-placed runner. That mare, Kilronan Light, has several sisters who produced hard-knockers and some blacktype but it's a lot of cheap blacktype. You can see a page of a relative here: http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2007/0211/158.pdf
I don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm having trouble seeing sending her to a commercial Kentucky stallion. I can't see spending more than a $5000 stud fee for her (unless there is something big on her page that I have completely missed). The stallions standing for $5k or less in Kentucky are generally less than commercial. Stormy Atlantic is hot right now, but he's not proven as a broodmare sire and I don't know if he'll be enough to make up for the lack of page.
If you took this mare to anybody in Kentucky, I'd see if you can get her to Pioneering. The mating would be 2x4 to Terlingua through a pair of quality individuals, he's improving his mares, it brings Mr Prospector into the mix, and a couple of nice ones have sold well regionally.
kimberly
I agree, $5k would be the absolute max for the page. fasig tipton feb 09 would be the target sale for a 2007 cover. what I saw that boldnesian mare at feb 07 fasig. not much physical appeal. The stormy atlantic broodmare prospect (557) that sold at the end of the sale was very athletic looking. Is that what is making him " hot " as a stud prospect or is there a superstar running currently? What is it that you like about Pioneering?
the dam's sister "time to shine" is producing AQHA hunters, owned by some people in Missouri. according to AQHA records she produced a gelding that placed in the top ten at the QH world show in multiple huntseat events 2001 through 2006. The other Time to Shine that comes up on google is a an AQHA daughter of Scotch Bar Time, no relation.
I agree, $5k would be the absolute max for the page. fasig tipton feb 09 would be the target sale for a 2007 cover. what I saw that boldnesian mare at feb 07 fasig. not much physical appeal. The stormy atlantic broodmare prospect (557) that sold at the end of the sale was very athletic looking. Is that what is making him " hot " as a stud prospect or is there a superstar running currently? What is it that you like about Pioneering?
the dam's sister "time to shine" is producing AQHA hunters, owned by some people in Missouri. according to AQHA records she produced a gelding that placed in the top ten at the QH world show in multiple huntseat events 2001 through 2006. The other Time to Shine that comes up on google is a an AQHA daughter of Scotch Bar Time, no relation.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
Stormy Atlantic has two stakes winning sons at stud (Indian Ocean and Gators and Bears) who were both very impressive on the track, the 2006 Canadian champion 2yo (Leonnatus Anteaus), the Grade-1 winning Stormello who just took 2nd in the Fountain of Youth over Nobiz Like Shobiz, and a host of other good runners. He's getting attention because he's siring quality stock. They're looking the part AND they're running the part.
The following are only suggestions. Free advice is worth what you pay for it...but I hope this provides you with ample food for thought.
I still (with all due respect and best intentions) question why you want to sell this mare in Kentucky. Atlantic Affair is the kind of mare who gets absolutely slaughtered at the Kentucky sales. In her case, the Stormy Atlantic top side probably won't be enough to overcome her weak female line and her weak race record. Better mares than her have been picked up for a song, which for you the breeder means either no sale at all or a massive loss. Case in point: Ponca (stakes-producing Allan Paulson-bred mare by Palace Music) in foal to Theatrical (!!!) sold for $1700 last year. You might have better luck keeping the foal and selling it as a yearling at a regional sale, or boarding your mare in a regional market with good breeders awards and selling the foal as a statebred at F-T Midatlantic or FT Texas. That way you'd have a chance at some breeders awards, the foal would have restricted statebred races where theoretically it would have greater earning power, and a guaranteed market for your product (foal).
Closer to Kentucky, Stormy Atlantic has a stakes winner out of a Buckaroo mare. Look at the extended reverse cross with good-value sire Lite the Fuse in PA.
If you do stay in Kentucky, Pioneering is in her price range, is improving his mares, has a median progeny earnings of $24k (aka enough to pay their bills) and he provides an opportunity to linebreed to a QUALITY source of QUALITY speed. Also consider Bright Launch ($3500) as another source of good-value athletes. Note that neither one will net you much as a covering sire, and Bright Launch for some reason gets consistently ignored at the sales.
For some reason I can't get Oklahoma out of my mind with Atlantic Affair...it's got slots, it's got a nice statebred program, it's getting some GOOD stallions, it's close to plenty of opportunity in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana, and more importantly it has stallions whose pedigrees complement Atlantic Affairs':
*Stormy Atlantic has become a respectable conduit for Seattle Slew linebreeding, with 2 stakes winners who are 3x3 to Seattle Slew, so the perinneal good value Evansville Slew is an option. Brings in Mr P through Fappiano. This horse is the real deal for a breeder on a budget. He is my top pick of the Okie studs.
*As she has no Mr P in her pedigree, Dance Master could work. He provides a cross to Secretariat through Secrettame.
*Oldie-but-goodie Rare Brick brings in a cross to Mr P and is a proven source of production in that state.
*Gulch (son of Mr P) LOVES Storm Bird blood; you can get him through the unproven Thunder Touch. Since your mare is unproven, I hesitate to recommend an unproven sire. There is one other Gulch in the state...
*Kipling. He's making some noise as sire of recent Gr-1 winner Kip Deville. Normally I'm not a fan of heavy inbreeding, but in this case you want to double up on all the "good stuff" out of Stormy Atlantic that you can. Since her damside is essentially an outcross to all but Boldnesian, she can probably do some deep linebreeding without ill effect. Kipling's dam Weekend Storm is a genetic sibling to Storm Cat (by Storm Bird out of a Secretariat mare). A Kipling-Atlantic Affair cross would be 2s x 3 d to the genetic siblings.
With the exception of Thunder Touch, all of the above are well-proven. None of them stands for more than $2500. Evansville Slew in particular is a PHENOMENAL sire value for $2500.
Bottom line: if you paid list price, you paid $2500 for this mare. Stud fee is $5000. Board assuming $400/mo is $4800 for year. Call incidentals such as vet, farrier, shots, trailering, etc at a nice round $1000/year. That means in order to break even, you would have to get $13,300 AFTER sales commission. If you own your own farm and board is reduced to the cost of feed (say $200/mo), then you will need to gross $10,000 after sales commission just to break even.
If anything, raising the foal to a weaner or a yearling is even more of a risk because you have more exposure (longer time paying board, chance the foal will die before the sale, etc). On the other hand, you stand a better chance of reward under the slot-fueled statebred scenario as you will have a shot at the breeders' awards. Hope this helps, and good luck.
The following are only suggestions. Free advice is worth what you pay for it...but I hope this provides you with ample food for thought.
I still (with all due respect and best intentions) question why you want to sell this mare in Kentucky. Atlantic Affair is the kind of mare who gets absolutely slaughtered at the Kentucky sales. In her case, the Stormy Atlantic top side probably won't be enough to overcome her weak female line and her weak race record. Better mares than her have been picked up for a song, which for you the breeder means either no sale at all or a massive loss. Case in point: Ponca (stakes-producing Allan Paulson-bred mare by Palace Music) in foal to Theatrical (!!!) sold for $1700 last year. You might have better luck keeping the foal and selling it as a yearling at a regional sale, or boarding your mare in a regional market with good breeders awards and selling the foal as a statebred at F-T Midatlantic or FT Texas. That way you'd have a chance at some breeders awards, the foal would have restricted statebred races where theoretically it would have greater earning power, and a guaranteed market for your product (foal).
Closer to Kentucky, Stormy Atlantic has a stakes winner out of a Buckaroo mare. Look at the extended reverse cross with good-value sire Lite the Fuse in PA.
If you do stay in Kentucky, Pioneering is in her price range, is improving his mares, has a median progeny earnings of $24k (aka enough to pay their bills) and he provides an opportunity to linebreed to a QUALITY source of QUALITY speed. Also consider Bright Launch ($3500) as another source of good-value athletes. Note that neither one will net you much as a covering sire, and Bright Launch for some reason gets consistently ignored at the sales.
For some reason I can't get Oklahoma out of my mind with Atlantic Affair...it's got slots, it's got a nice statebred program, it's getting some GOOD stallions, it's close to plenty of opportunity in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana, and more importantly it has stallions whose pedigrees complement Atlantic Affairs':
*Stormy Atlantic has become a respectable conduit for Seattle Slew linebreeding, with 2 stakes winners who are 3x3 to Seattle Slew, so the perinneal good value Evansville Slew is an option. Brings in Mr P through Fappiano. This horse is the real deal for a breeder on a budget. He is my top pick of the Okie studs.
*As she has no Mr P in her pedigree, Dance Master could work. He provides a cross to Secretariat through Secrettame.
*Oldie-but-goodie Rare Brick brings in a cross to Mr P and is a proven source of production in that state.
*Gulch (son of Mr P) LOVES Storm Bird blood; you can get him through the unproven Thunder Touch. Since your mare is unproven, I hesitate to recommend an unproven sire. There is one other Gulch in the state...
*Kipling. He's making some noise as sire of recent Gr-1 winner Kip Deville. Normally I'm not a fan of heavy inbreeding, but in this case you want to double up on all the "good stuff" out of Stormy Atlantic that you can. Since her damside is essentially an outcross to all but Boldnesian, she can probably do some deep linebreeding without ill effect. Kipling's dam Weekend Storm is a genetic sibling to Storm Cat (by Storm Bird out of a Secretariat mare). A Kipling-Atlantic Affair cross would be 2s x 3 d to the genetic siblings.
With the exception of Thunder Touch, all of the above are well-proven. None of them stands for more than $2500. Evansville Slew in particular is a PHENOMENAL sire value for $2500.
Bottom line: if you paid list price, you paid $2500 for this mare. Stud fee is $5000. Board assuming $400/mo is $4800 for year. Call incidentals such as vet, farrier, shots, trailering, etc at a nice round $1000/year. That means in order to break even, you would have to get $13,300 AFTER sales commission. If you own your own farm and board is reduced to the cost of feed (say $200/mo), then you will need to gross $10,000 after sales commission just to break even.
If anything, raising the foal to a weaner or a yearling is even more of a risk because you have more exposure (longer time paying board, chance the foal will die before the sale, etc). On the other hand, you stand a better chance of reward under the slot-fueled statebred scenario as you will have a shot at the breeders' awards. Hope this helps, and good luck.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
