Is she a good broodmare prospect?
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Maureen
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- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Ontario. Canada
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Is she a good broodmare prospect?
Looking at this mare as possible addition to my band if she's not sold already. 'Who Cares Girl' -(Allen's Prospect-Leopard Lily) Possible mating to Gone Fishin.
Re: Is she a good broodmare prospect?
Maureen wrote:Looking at this mare as possible addition to my band if she's not sold already. 'Who Cares Girl' -(Allen's Prospect-Leopard Lily) Possible mating to Gone Fishin.
No offense please, but looking at this mare's pedigree for race breeding, I would pass as she doesn't have much to show for.
You must ask questions first, then find possible answers:
Why do you want to breed? Walt are your overall goals?
If for a race horse, does her pedigree- particularly her dam side/line offers good chances.
Where are her strengths
What are her weaknesses
What do you think any of her foals will be worth
What kind of race horse to you want to breed? Sprinter, middle distance runner, router, dirt, turf, etc.
What should the foal be like physically? Planning on a good enough individual for other sports disciplines, in case racing doesn't work out?
Whatever you will choose, your mare cannot produce a commercially viable offspring.
Better look at a prospective broodmare with open eyes before buying.
Best wishes
SB
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Maureen
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I'm looking to breed for longevity. This mare raced until she was seven, and was still finishing in the money, with earnings of $167,565. I am not a commercial breeder-I breed for my own race horses, sell if I can, and own my own place, so I don't ship out for foaling, etc.
This mare interested me because of her longevity, and coupled with Gone Fishin, who himself has proven to be able to race for a long time, seems a good match for me.
With all the talk of horses that can't last past their 3 y.o. years, I felt breeding like to like might just be what the race industry needs.
This mare interested me because of her longevity, and coupled with Gone Fishin, who himself has proven to be able to race for a long time, seems a good match for me.
With all the talk of horses that can't last past their 3 y.o. years, I felt breeding like to like might just be what the race industry needs.
Maureen writes:
*I'm looking to breed for longevity. This mare raced until she was seven, and was still finishing in the money, with earnings of $167,565.*
I understand where you are coming from but longevity in a race horse is relative to a point. This mare probably just broke even on the money she made, and she made it the hard way. Add up the initial training cost and the cost of keeping her racing until the age of seven, and you don't have much overhead, I bet.
* I am not a commercial breeder-I breed for my own race horses, sell if I can, and own my own place, so I don't ship out for foaling, etc. *
This helps to defray the high cost and risks of breeding.
*This mare interested me because of her longevity, and coupled with Gone Fishin, who himself has proven to be able to race for a long time, seems a good match for me. *
What's the mare's name as I'd like to take a look at her pedigree. If you don't want to disclose her here, please email ma.
But surely, you cannot ignore the financial aspects of longevity the way you define it. The very first race horse I bred [only bred 3 so far] many years ago, raced 100 times but only earned $25K and change for his owner. I think I would have retired him much sooner, but perhaps the owners just enjoyed having a race horse and seeing him run. This was the case with his dam I had rescued for $250, a granddaughter of Princequillo. She raced 59 times and only won a few and very little money
Read my comments on the page under the circle behind his name.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/easy+way+dad
My Dad George, his sire, by the way, stood at Tartan Farms in Ocala.
Little did I know then how famous this breeding enterprise would become.
All gone now. Gosh, I'm getting ancient, lol.
*With all the talk of horses that can't last past their 3 y.o. years, I felt breeding like to like might just be what the race industry needs.*
I would not draw that conclusion from the above. The reason why these colts don't run past the age of 3 has to do with the owner's impatience, greed, lack of proper training, and the enormous cost of racing. We live in a very fast pace time which affects all sections of our society; nothing seems to last very long anymore, in particular fame. Here today and gone and forgotten tomorrow.
Take a look at my other colt I bred more recently. He's been in training in MD by his new owner since January under a special training program. I really lucked out with the person I sold him to. Having been an Alabama-bred was a real strike against him as far as selling was concerned, but my patience paid off. He'll be a 3-year old May 1st. He couldn't possibly have a better owner than he has now.
I did struggled with the choice of stallion, but soundness was one of my major criteria. Moonlight Dancer and his entire family, both top and bottom were hard knocking race horses, most all of them graded stakes runners with some healthy earnings as a result. Moonlight Dancer now stands in La for $500 stud fee. I had bought his dam by way of the ALL-TB classified page, but sadly had to sell her after the colt was born. She is now owned by McMahon Saratoga TBs and is in foal to Zavata. I paid $1800 for the mare originally, but in the meantime, her half sister Bella Banissa won a graded stakes race and a couple of others and just keeps running. She's by Good & Tough [La now], and 'fetched' $100K as a 2-year old in training sale. All official record. Another member of the family is the great PRIDE; they share the mare MANDERA
http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/ ... id=36690he
Moonshine Talk will most likely excel on the turf. For now, his training is progressing nicely, and he is doing exceptionally well. His owner believes he has stakes class ability. We shall see.
I just found another mare, a potential diamond in the rough for under $1K, but I think she's already been sold....
She is bred strikingly similar to BARBARO. I had already picked a mate for her: Hunting Hard which stands at a fried's in Indiana, a stallion with good value for his breeding and accomplishments, and he fits that mare like a dream.
Oh well, a dream it will stay.....
Best wishes,
SB
*I'm looking to breed for longevity. This mare raced until she was seven, and was still finishing in the money, with earnings of $167,565.*
I understand where you are coming from but longevity in a race horse is relative to a point. This mare probably just broke even on the money she made, and she made it the hard way. Add up the initial training cost and the cost of keeping her racing until the age of seven, and you don't have much overhead, I bet.
* I am not a commercial breeder-I breed for my own race horses, sell if I can, and own my own place, so I don't ship out for foaling, etc. *
This helps to defray the high cost and risks of breeding.
*This mare interested me because of her longevity, and coupled with Gone Fishin, who himself has proven to be able to race for a long time, seems a good match for me. *
What's the mare's name as I'd like to take a look at her pedigree. If you don't want to disclose her here, please email ma.
But surely, you cannot ignore the financial aspects of longevity the way you define it. The very first race horse I bred [only bred 3 so far] many years ago, raced 100 times but only earned $25K and change for his owner. I think I would have retired him much sooner, but perhaps the owners just enjoyed having a race horse and seeing him run. This was the case with his dam I had rescued for $250, a granddaughter of Princequillo. She raced 59 times and only won a few and very little money
Read my comments on the page under the circle behind his name.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/easy+way+dad
My Dad George, his sire, by the way, stood at Tartan Farms in Ocala.
Little did I know then how famous this breeding enterprise would become.
All gone now. Gosh, I'm getting ancient, lol.
*With all the talk of horses that can't last past their 3 y.o. years, I felt breeding like to like might just be what the race industry needs.*
I would not draw that conclusion from the above. The reason why these colts don't run past the age of 3 has to do with the owner's impatience, greed, lack of proper training, and the enormous cost of racing. We live in a very fast pace time which affects all sections of our society; nothing seems to last very long anymore, in particular fame. Here today and gone and forgotten tomorrow.
Take a look at my other colt I bred more recently. He's been in training in MD by his new owner since January under a special training program. I really lucked out with the person I sold him to. Having been an Alabama-bred was a real strike against him as far as selling was concerned, but my patience paid off. He'll be a 3-year old May 1st. He couldn't possibly have a better owner than he has now.
I did struggled with the choice of stallion, but soundness was one of my major criteria. Moonlight Dancer and his entire family, both top and bottom were hard knocking race horses, most all of them graded stakes runners with some healthy earnings as a result. Moonlight Dancer now stands in La for $500 stud fee. I had bought his dam by way of the ALL-TB classified page, but sadly had to sell her after the colt was born. She is now owned by McMahon Saratoga TBs and is in foal to Zavata. I paid $1800 for the mare originally, but in the meantime, her half sister Bella Banissa won a graded stakes race and a couple of others and just keeps running. She's by Good & Tough [La now], and 'fetched' $100K as a 2-year old in training sale. All official record. Another member of the family is the great PRIDE; they share the mare MANDERA
http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/ ... id=36690he
Moonshine Talk will most likely excel on the turf. For now, his training is progressing nicely, and he is doing exceptionally well. His owner believes he has stakes class ability. We shall see.
I just found another mare, a potential diamond in the rough for under $1K, but I think she's already been sold....
She is bred strikingly similar to BARBARO. I had already picked a mate for her: Hunting Hard which stands at a fried's in Indiana, a stallion with good value for his breeding and accomplishments, and he fits that mare like a dream.
Oh well, a dream it will stay.....
Best wishes,
SB
Depending on how much you get her for, she may be well worth it. She was an above average runner and her dam a very good runner...both Stakes Placed, that means ALOT! When I get my study done and posted you will see that majority of the best stakes winners come from this kind of female family where the dam and her dam (grand dam) or both were above average runners. You will see this over and over.
Your job from there will be to breed her to the best possible sire you can afford, that compliments her...or makes up for any weaknesses she may have. If you are breeding for the sales, if she looks the part and produces like, that is half the battle right there.
Since her ssi 1.50 shows she was well above average runner. I assume she ran in a state where she did earn her own way. Usually a horse who didn't pay their own way runs below average, with an ssi BELOW 1.00.
We just purchased another stakes placed mare (who ran at S.A. and D.M.)who looks awesome and so have her foals and they have sold pretty well considering the CA. market. $25,000 yearling and $8,000 weanling. 2005 and 2006. So obviously they look good.
Here is the mares APR...it isn't all that bad IMHO.
LEOPARD LILY, 1987, Clint Maroon- Miss List by List.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1996 Mcquestor,B,c,Norquestor 2 15 0 1 3 6,770 ( 75) 0.20
North America Turf Record 5 0 1 1 2,900 ( 70)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 720 ( 65)
North America Dirt Routes 7 0 0 2 3,150 ( 75)
DP = 10-0-5-3-0 DI = 2.27 CD = 0.94
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMSEP 1997 300 $13,500 $7,727 ylg ( 2/11) $4,000
1997 Who Cares Girl,B,f,Allen's Prospect 6 59 10 8 6 167,565 ( 84) 1.50
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 150 ( 67)
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 1 1,893 ( 77)
North America Dirt Sprints 27 4 3 2 67,314 ( 82)
North America Dirt Routes 29 6 5 3 98,358 ( 84)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 6 1 2 2 9,275 ( 82)
DP = 12-4-9-1-0 DI = 3.73 CD = 1.04 AWD = 7.63
1998 Northern Leopard,Ch,g,Northern Baby 3 8 2 0 1 29,500 ( 77) 1.66
North America Turf Record 8 2 0 1 29,500 ( 77)
DP = 9-2-7-6-0 DI = 1.53 CD = 0.58 AWD = 8.75
1999 Lily Vanilly,Dkbbr,f,Deputed Testamony 4 56 8 10 9 109,413 ( 79) 0.92
North America Turf Record * 4 1 0 0 6,975 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 14 1 2 2 12,229 ( 79)
North America Dirt Routes 38 6 8 7 90,209 ( 79)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 10 3 3 2 37,058 ( 79)
DP = 4-0-5-1-0 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.70 AWD = 8.20
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMOCT 2000 0638 $1,300 $2,450 ylg ( 4/ 4) $2,000
2000 Lily's Testamony,B,f,Deputed Testamony 1 2 0 0 0 0 ( 36) 0.00
North America Dirt Sprints 2 0 0 0 0 ( 36)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 36)
DP = 4-0-5-1-0 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.70
2002 Rinka Lily,Ch,f,Rinka Das Unraced
DP = 6-0-14-2-0 DI = 1.44 CD = 0.45
2003 Barren
2004 Slipped
2005 Unnamed,c,Mojave Moon (Live Foal)
DP = 12-3-10-1-0 DI = 3.33 CD = 1.00
Her Dam
MISS LIST, 1978, List- Morning Blast by Ahoy.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1985 Miss Lot O' Charm,Dkbbr,f,Mokhieba 4 17 1 1 1 4,438 ( 61) 0.27
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 0
North America Dirt Sprints 12 0 0 1 1,026 ( 61)
North America Dirt Routes 5 1 1 0 3,412
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 1 0 0 1,950 ( 61)
DP = 4-4-6-2-2 DI = 1.57 CD = 0.33 AWD = 8.32
1987 Leopard Lily,B,f,Clint Maroon 6 66 15 17 10 151,363 ( 95) 2.31 North America 2 YO Record 2 0 1 0 2,940
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 57)
North America Dirt Sprints 42 7 12 8 79,070 ( 93)
North America Dirt Routes 23 8 5 2 72,293 ( 95)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 10 2 3 2 22,856 ( 95)
DP = 11-3-4-2-2 DI = 2.67 CD = 0.86 AWD = 7.52
At 5 3rd Maryland Million Hcp. (R) (F & M) (O) (25,000)
1988 Lone Star Lester,Ch,g,Dancing Again 2 2 0 1 0 1,000 0.42
North America Turf Record 2 0 1 0 1,000
DP = 4-1-8-11-2 DI = 0.53 CD = -0.23
1989 Iron Lucy,Ch,f,Iron 3 27 6 2 2 61,484 ( 92) 2.03
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 0 1,055 ( 71)
North America Dirt Sprints 9 2 1 1 12,281 ( 92)
North America Dirt Routes 15 4 1 1 48,148 ( 89)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 1 0 3,010 ( 85)
DP = 10-3-13-2-2 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.57 AWD = 7.89
At 4 2nd Maryland Million Handicap (R) (N) (25,000)
1990 Slipped
1991 Listful Thinking,Ch,f,Iron 1 11 0 2 0 3,995 ( 72) 0.25
North America Dirt Sprints 10 0 2 0 3,995 ( 72)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
DP = 10-3-13-2-2 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.57
1992 Slipped
1993 Ironfist,Ch,g,Iron 4 13 8 3 0 147,000 7.31
North America Turf Record 11 6 3 0 124,500
North America Dirt Routes 2 2 0 0 22,500
DP = 10-3-13-2-2 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.57 AWD = 26.25
At 7 Won Mason Houghland Memorial Stp. S. (N) (48,500), New Jersey Hunt
Cup Steeplechase S. (N) (35,000)
At 8 Won Virginia Gold Cup Timber S. (N) (50,000)
At 9 2nd Virginia Gold Cup Timber S. (N) (50,000)
1994 Alden's List,B,f,John Alden 1 9 0 1 2 2,660 ( 60) 0.15
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 1 792 ( 54)
North America Dirt Routes 6 0 1 1 1,868 ( 60)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 1 792 ( 54)
DP = 8-7-8-3-2 DI = 2.11 CD = 0.57
1995 Zigman Freud,Dkbbr,c,Ziggy's Boy Unraced
DP = 6-4-8-2-2 DI = 1.75 CD = 0.45
1997 Court List,B,f,Eastover Court Unraced
DP = 8-2-7-3-2 DI = 1.59 CD = 0.50
1998 Rinkalist,Ch,g,Rinka Das 1 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34) 0.00
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
DP = 4-0-15-3-2 DI = 0.92 CD = 0.04
Your job from there will be to breed her to the best possible sire you can afford, that compliments her...or makes up for any weaknesses she may have. If you are breeding for the sales, if she looks the part and produces like, that is half the battle right there.
Since her ssi 1.50 shows she was well above average runner. I assume she ran in a state where she did earn her own way. Usually a horse who didn't pay their own way runs below average, with an ssi BELOW 1.00.
We just purchased another stakes placed mare (who ran at S.A. and D.M.)who looks awesome and so have her foals and they have sold pretty well considering the CA. market. $25,000 yearling and $8,000 weanling. 2005 and 2006. So obviously they look good.
Here is the mares APR...it isn't all that bad IMHO.
LEOPARD LILY, 1987, Clint Maroon- Miss List by List.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1996 Mcquestor,B,c,Norquestor 2 15 0 1 3 6,770 ( 75) 0.20
North America Turf Record 5 0 1 1 2,900 ( 70)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 720 ( 65)
North America Dirt Routes 7 0 0 2 3,150 ( 75)
DP = 10-0-5-3-0 DI = 2.27 CD = 0.94
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMSEP 1997 300 $13,500 $7,727 ylg ( 2/11) $4,000
1997 Who Cares Girl,B,f,Allen's Prospect 6 59 10 8 6 167,565 ( 84) 1.50
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 150 ( 67)
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 1 1,893 ( 77)
North America Dirt Sprints 27 4 3 2 67,314 ( 82)
North America Dirt Routes 29 6 5 3 98,358 ( 84)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 6 1 2 2 9,275 ( 82)
DP = 12-4-9-1-0 DI = 3.73 CD = 1.04 AWD = 7.63
1998 Northern Leopard,Ch,g,Northern Baby 3 8 2 0 1 29,500 ( 77) 1.66
North America Turf Record 8 2 0 1 29,500 ( 77)
DP = 9-2-7-6-0 DI = 1.53 CD = 0.58 AWD = 8.75
1999 Lily Vanilly,Dkbbr,f,Deputed Testamony 4 56 8 10 9 109,413 ( 79) 0.92
North America Turf Record * 4 1 0 0 6,975 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 14 1 2 2 12,229 ( 79)
North America Dirt Routes 38 6 8 7 90,209 ( 79)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 10 3 3 2 37,058 ( 79)
DP = 4-0-5-1-0 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.70 AWD = 8.20
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMOCT 2000 0638 $1,300 $2,450 ylg ( 4/ 4) $2,000
2000 Lily's Testamony,B,f,Deputed Testamony 1 2 0 0 0 0 ( 36) 0.00
North America Dirt Sprints 2 0 0 0 0 ( 36)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 36)
DP = 4-0-5-1-0 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.70
2002 Rinka Lily,Ch,f,Rinka Das Unraced
DP = 6-0-14-2-0 DI = 1.44 CD = 0.45
2003 Barren
2004 Slipped
2005 Unnamed,c,Mojave Moon (Live Foal)
DP = 12-3-10-1-0 DI = 3.33 CD = 1.00
Her Dam
MISS LIST, 1978, List- Morning Blast by Ahoy.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1985 Miss Lot O' Charm,Dkbbr,f,Mokhieba 4 17 1 1 1 4,438 ( 61) 0.27
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 0
North America Dirt Sprints 12 0 0 1 1,026 ( 61)
North America Dirt Routes 5 1 1 0 3,412
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 1 0 0 1,950 ( 61)
DP = 4-4-6-2-2 DI = 1.57 CD = 0.33 AWD = 8.32
1987 Leopard Lily,B,f,Clint Maroon 6 66 15 17 10 151,363 ( 95) 2.31 North America 2 YO Record 2 0 1 0 2,940
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 57)
North America Dirt Sprints 42 7 12 8 79,070 ( 93)
North America Dirt Routes 23 8 5 2 72,293 ( 95)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 10 2 3 2 22,856 ( 95)
DP = 11-3-4-2-2 DI = 2.67 CD = 0.86 AWD = 7.52
At 5 3rd Maryland Million Hcp. (R) (F & M) (O) (25,000)
1988 Lone Star Lester,Ch,g,Dancing Again 2 2 0 1 0 1,000 0.42
North America Turf Record 2 0 1 0 1,000
DP = 4-1-8-11-2 DI = 0.53 CD = -0.23
1989 Iron Lucy,Ch,f,Iron 3 27 6 2 2 61,484 ( 92) 2.03
North America Turf Record 3 0 0 0 1,055 ( 71)
North America Dirt Sprints 9 2 1 1 12,281 ( 92)
North America Dirt Routes 15 4 1 1 48,148 ( 89)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 1 0 3,010 ( 85)
DP = 10-3-13-2-2 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.57 AWD = 7.89
At 4 2nd Maryland Million Handicap (R) (N) (25,000)
1990 Slipped
1991 Listful Thinking,Ch,f,Iron 1 11 0 2 0 3,995 ( 72) 0.25
North America Dirt Sprints 10 0 2 0 3,995 ( 72)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
DP = 10-3-13-2-2 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.57
1992 Slipped
1993 Ironfist,Ch,g,Iron 4 13 8 3 0 147,000 7.31
North America Turf Record 11 6 3 0 124,500
North America Dirt Routes 2 2 0 0 22,500
DP = 10-3-13-2-2 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.57 AWD = 26.25
At 7 Won Mason Houghland Memorial Stp. S. (N) (48,500), New Jersey Hunt
Cup Steeplechase S. (N) (35,000)
At 8 Won Virginia Gold Cup Timber S. (N) (50,000)
At 9 2nd Virginia Gold Cup Timber S. (N) (50,000)
1994 Alden's List,B,f,John Alden 1 9 0 1 2 2,660 ( 60) 0.15
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 1 792 ( 54)
North America Dirt Routes 6 0 1 1 1,868 ( 60)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 1 792 ( 54)
DP = 8-7-8-3-2 DI = 2.11 CD = 0.57
1995 Zigman Freud,Dkbbr,c,Ziggy's Boy Unraced
DP = 6-4-8-2-2 DI = 1.75 CD = 0.45
1997 Court List,B,f,Eastover Court Unraced
DP = 8-2-7-3-2 DI = 1.59 CD = 0.50
1998 Rinkalist,Ch,g,Rinka Das 1 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34) 0.00
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
DP = 4-0-15-3-2 DI = 0.92 CD = 0.04
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fastappy
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Northern California
I like the fact she's a hard knocking mare with 10 wins, and especially the fact that she's by a very good broodmare sire in Allen's Propect. If she has good conformation on top of that, I'd say go for her.
I concur with Winnie that you have to put a good "breed to run" sire (5k or less) on her. Good luck!
I concur with Winnie that you have to put a good "breed to run" sire (5k or less) on her. Good luck!
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KamiBrooks
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 12:00 am
Maureen wrote:I'm looking to breed for longevity. This mare raced until she was seven, and was still finishing in the money, with earnings of $167,565....
With all the talk of horses that can't last past their 3 y.o. years, I felt breeding like to like might just be what the race industry needs.
I'm not an expert, but I like your mare. As an interesting note, look at the best runner for Allen's Prospect as a BMS http://www.pedigreequery.com/rocky+gulch A millionaire by two horses that had only solid race careers and was still a stakes winner at 5yo. The stud is not open to the public, so I'm guessing that's not bad for a breed-to-race horse.
You should consider pulling down the BMS nicking report for her from equineline to see what sires have worked well with Allen's Prospect. Its about $20, but I think its worth it if you buy her.
Kami
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: California
Maureen, SB posed some good questions. You should give some thought to the point she was trying to make.
Justifying the purchase of a mare is one of the most common mistakes all breeders make. If you have any friends/advisors with a proven track record of breeding stakes winners, I suggest you run this and other potential purchases by them. That's a lot safer bet than taking advice from novices.
Justifying the purchase of a mare is one of the most common mistakes all breeders make. If you have any friends/advisors with a proven track record of breeding stakes winners, I suggest you run this and other potential purchases by them. That's a lot safer bet than taking advice from novices.
OK my list is done...you may want to study it below and see if there is any truth to what I say? Your mare is good enough to buy (at a reasonable price) according to my study and if she has the right conformation for your taste or market.
Deciding who to breed her to, to improve the quality that is already there is going to be your next adventure.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... 132#106132
Best of luck...although luck is what happens after you've done all you can.
Deciding who to breed her to, to improve the quality that is already there is going to be your next adventure.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... 132#106132
Best of luck...although luck is what happens after you've done all you can.
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: California
WARNING: As in any enterprise, those seeking advice in TB breeding decisions should seek and take counsel from those people with proven track records. Claiming horses can be bred by anyone, without much effort or skill. Stakes horses, especially those of graded caliber, are a much safer litmus test of a breeder's accomplishments. Opinions, as they say, are like relatives; everyone has them. Adhere to the advice of people who have been breeding horses for more than a few days and you'll be better off.
Nice try Michael 
The statistics above on Ca. Stakes Winners (not sires) alone prove there is something to what I say. I didn't pick any horses at random, I didn't choose horses from a state where they are quality bred.
You know very well I have done pretty darn good so far in this business, my stats which were listed on another thread prove that. I have produced a few quality allowances winners (from a handfull of starters), one who could have easily been a Stakes horse if it wasn't for a trainer who worked him just a few days before....bullet works each time before his 2 stakes races. And I have done extremely well in the sale ring and through private sales. For someone who has been doing this all his life, how long did it take you to get a quality runner? A lot longer than it took me I'm sure.
At least I have never in my life been in debt or owed a soul money. I am known for my integrity
If you can play this game/business and be able to do that and come out ahead, even if it means NEVER producing a stakes winner...you are doing good.
By the way how many Graded stakes horses have you produced...or stakes winners for that matter?
I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone...those statistics above speak for themselves. What do I care if people want to throw their money away and breed poor quality stock...better competition for me (although I hate to see their offspring end up at the killers) If just one person can learn like I did to upgrade their mares and choose better sires, then I am happy I have at least helped someone.
The statistics above on Ca. Stakes Winners (not sires) alone prove there is something to what I say. I didn't pick any horses at random, I didn't choose horses from a state where they are quality bred.
You know very well I have done pretty darn good so far in this business, my stats which were listed on another thread prove that. I have produced a few quality allowances winners (from a handfull of starters), one who could have easily been a Stakes horse if it wasn't for a trainer who worked him just a few days before....bullet works each time before his 2 stakes races. And I have done extremely well in the sale ring and through private sales. For someone who has been doing this all his life, how long did it take you to get a quality runner? A lot longer than it took me I'm sure.
At least I have never in my life been in debt or owed a soul money. I am known for my integrity
If you can play this game/business and be able to do that and come out ahead, even if it means NEVER producing a stakes winner...you are doing good.
By the way how many Graded stakes horses have you produced...or stakes winners for that matter?
I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone...those statistics above speak for themselves. What do I care if people want to throw their money away and breed poor quality stock...better competition for me (although I hate to see their offspring end up at the killers) If just one person can learn like I did to upgrade their mares and choose better sires, then I am happy I have at least helped someone.
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geowarrior
- Leading Sire
- Posts: 3593
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA