Asiatic Boy (ARG)--Hybrid

[CA Michael]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/asiatic+boy

Impressive winner of today's UAE Derby by many lengths. This is the race which launched Discreet Cat into prominence a year ago. He has a very interesting pedigree--an excellent example of the hybrid breeding pattern I often yap about here.

His sire: 4x3 SWAPS; his dam, 3x4 BUSANDA. No other inbreeding within five generations. CARO over NORTHERN DANCER.

We can look forward to Asiatic Boy's U.S. debut later this year. He might be seen tackling Invasor at some point. That will be some race.

[louis finochio]

AB and Invasor have some common ground in their immediate families. You will not find those inbreedings of 5 X 5 X 5 to Northern Dancer and Raise a Native and Native Dancer.

The hybrid vigor and soundness produced by outcross matings are golden, as we can follow our Tb for many years.

[Keith]

How about these crosses?

Seattle Slew
4x4 Nasrullah
5x5 War Admiral
5x5 Baby League

Include
4x4x4 Turn-To
4x5 Hidden Talent
5x5 Ribot

Unbridled
4x4 Aspidistra
4x5 Rough N Tumble

Davona Dale
4x4x4 Bull Lea
4x4 Two Bob
5x5x5x5 Bull Dog
5x5 Hyperion
5x5 Pharos

Forego
5x5 Lady Juror
5x5 Plucky Liege
5x5 Teddy

Gallant Man
3x3 Mah Mahal
4x4 Blandford

Roberto
4x4 Nearco
4x4 Blue Larkspur
4x5 Mumtaz Begum
5x5 Plucky Liege
5x5x5 Pharos
5x5 Teddy
5x5 Sardanapale

Blue Larkspur
3x4 Padua
5x5 Galopin
5x5 Macaroni

Iron Liege
3x4 Plucky Liege
3x4 Teddy

Alsab
3X5 Fair Play
4x4 Pastorella
4x5 Bend Or
4x5 St. Simon
4x5 Commando
5x5x5 Springfield


Weekend Surprise
2x4 Somethingroyal

Stevie Wonderboy
3x3 Weekend Surprise
5x5 Turn-To

Danehill
3x3 Natalma
5x5 Hyperion


Keith

[louis finochio]

Keith: A balance of sire lines is desired by Tb breeders that are breeding for soundness. As those fashion breeders are breeding to make a elevated profit margin by breeding for unsoundess with an excess of window dressing.

[zinn21]

4x3 to Swaps. I wish their were some stallions left in North America with a lot of close up Swaps in their pedigree.

[Pete]

Hi Michael,

It was a very interesting day in Dubai for Argentine horses with Invasor and Asiatic Boy both winning but the latter's sire, NOT FOR SALE had 2 other sons entered on the day:

GOLD FOR SALE in the Nad Al Sheba (ran out)
FORTY LICKS in the World Cup (ran out)

A solid performance for any sire and perhaps surprising to many who aren't familiar with Not For Sale or his sire, Parade Marshall (and I wasn't until a few weeks ago). Interesting as well is that the sheikhs have been buying up these Argentine stars, (including Parade Marshall's filly triple crown winner Emotion Parade) and importing them to Dubai with excellent results.

Parade Marshall (sire of Not For Sale) was a good colt here in the USA winning the Governor's Cup H (L) and running third in the Peter Pan (G1 at the time). He's also a half brother to good stallion Buckaroo so Parade Marshall was a skillful acquisition whose family worked with Buckpasser blood that was already well proven with the Argentine mare base.

Not For Sale has had only 42 lifetime starters to date and three were running today in the richest card of racing in the world. Pretty heady stuff.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Zinn,

Other than Neartic and Ribot line stallions Hyperion (grand sire of Swaps)was purged from almost all pedigrees of stallions that proved successful in North America. It was natural selection and not intentional.

Devil's Bag and his brother Saint Ballado have Swaps in their 4th generation (the first strain of Hyperion in their blood) and other lines are beginning to show Hyperion in stallions that are having success like Dynaformer.

That's not to say that Hyperion blood whether through Swaps or others wasn't carried in the blood of successful sires in other areas of the world.

Regards,

Pete

[Mac]

Hi, I am new to this site. Am just starting to study the out-of-North America sires out there. Can't believe this guy (Not For Sale) has so many showing up to the UAE champ races on one day. Wow. I am still trying to get deeply familiar with North American sire and dam families since starting to breed mares, and I can't begin to take in all the obviously extremely talented sires and dam bloodlines outside of this continent. For example, studying Candy Stripes's success is on a to-do list up since he apparently can get lots of BIG racehorses (Invasor, Leroidesenamoux, Candy Stripes), etc. My question as I study him will be how much impact the outcross vigor has had on some of his top runners (as opposed to him staying here in the U.S. and being bred to mares with more inbreeding activity).

Except for joining this site I have no one to talk to, as my friends all think they lost me to an alien abduction since I got into pedigrees.

Mac (Leigh)

[CA Michael]

Mac,

LOL. Another pedigree addict is born. Welcome to the fraternity. Once it gets in your system, there's no removing it. I caught the fever at age 8; by the age of 12 I knew much more about pedigrees than I did about what was going on in my classroom, and it's been that way ever since.

As much as I've studied and researched South American pedigrees, and the chilling success American castoff stallions (such as Parade Marshall) have enjoyed there, I still can't assign a reasonable explanation for most of it. Why is Candy Stripes a sire for the ages when bred to Argentinian mares, but a hand-me-down failure when he was repatriated for a stint in the U.S. during the 1990's? How can a zero-value stallion like the U.S. bred CONSULTANT'S BID (Bold Bidder) sire champions like BAYAKOA; or a son of NASHUA (who is not known as a sire of sires) like GOOD MANNERS cause cataclysmic changes in Argentine pedigrees? Certainly outcrossing plays a part in these dramatic reversals in performance, but in my opinion, the differences in environment between our hemispheres and climates play at least an equally large part.

LEROIDESANIMAUX (BRZ) is a Candy Stripes son produced by an English bred dam, from an American female family. Not a drop of South American blood. But when Candy Stripes stood in Kentucky he served large books of excellent mares, not unlike the dam of Leroidesanimaux. Yet, his sire record was so poor from these mares that he was shuffled off to Florida where he ended up standing for $3,500!! South Americans shrewdly picked him up for a song, returned him to their country, and his stock took off again! Go figure.

A similar case was that of LILOY, a French born son of Bold Bidder from a Spy Song mare, who won several sprint stakes in Europe. Exported to Argentina, he became a leading sire of Champions. Brought to the U.S. he failed to sire much of anything, in spite of much support from N. B. Hunt. I believe he was ultimately returned to south of the equator.

Over the years many top South American racehorses and stallions have been imported to America. Dozens upon dozens. Yet I can count on one hand the ones which have lived up to expectations at stud. The great *FORLI was one, *TATAN another (both at Claiborne). But other big outfits like King Ranch, Spendthrift Farm, Gainesway Farm, and Lane's End Farm have had abysmal luck with Argentine bred stallions.

It's only been in recent years that good American stallions have been shuttled to South Americal; we should see the fruits of those ventures before long. It will be very interesting to watch these horses perform in the U.S. Will the improvement in their stallion roster lead to even better racehorses being exported to race here?

[Rokeby Forever]

Hi Michael,

Wouldn't you agree that American breeders missed the boat with Southern Halo and let him get away to South America?

He's Hail To Reason, and there's no better nick with HTR I can think of than Buckpasser. Did American breeders send him any mares with Buckpasser blood?

He went to South America and they swamped him with mares that had Buckpasser...what was the result?

Finally, someone at Woodlynn Farm in KY got the idea to breed Southern Halo to a mare with Buckpasser. They picked out a Woodman mare that had Buckpasser through Woodman's dam. The result? More Than Ready.

Makes you wonder, huh?

[Mike]

I couldn't have a More Than Ready down here, although they still sell well, which may mean that I'm in the minority.

[CA Michael]

I agree. I think the same could be said of our lack of attention to HUSSONET (Mr. P). Lane's End stood him for only one season before packing him off to Australia where his first crop is making a lot of noise. He's no spring chicken anymore, but landed in a field of great opportunity with more Northern Dancer line mares than he would have ever received in America.

For some reason, HALO sons have never been extremely popular with breeders. They aren't the prettiest horses in the world, but they are usually tough, versatile and classy.

[Rokeby Forever]

Hi Michael. Would you agree that Devil's Bag and Saint Ballado were exceptions to that rule? I don't think they were shunned by breeders. And I think breeders expected a lot from Saint Ballado - there are plenty of his sons at stud.

Unfortunately, the list of Saint Ballado sires is pretty long, but not very earthshaking. Captain Bodgit, Straight Man, Flame Thrower, and Sweetsouthernsaint aren't exactly making him a "sire of sires." Would Saint Liam have been a savior? I thought $50,000 was pretty pricey when you look at the roster of Saint Ballado sires. Your thoughts?

[Keith]

Intriguing by Swaps-Glamour by Nasrullah has had quite an influence on bloodlines through her daughters

1. Numbered Account dam of
Private Account
Polish Numbers

2. Playmate dam of
Woodman

Numbered Account and Playmate are line bred

3x4x5 War Admiral
4x5 La Troienne
5x5 Selene
5x5 Teddy


Timber Country by Woodman-Fall Aspen by Pretense
3x4 Swaps
4x5 War Admiral
4x5 Hyperion
5x5 Case Ace
5x5 Nasrullah


Affectionately by Swaps-Searching by War Admiral
She was Champion 2 Y0 Filly, Champion Older Mare, and Champion Sprinter and the dam of
Personality Horse of The Year


Sweet Clementine by Swaps-Miz Clementine by Bull Lea
She is the dam of Best Turn the sire of
Cox's Ridge
Davona Dale

Swaps was a great broodmare sire as he is out of a great broodmare in Iron Reward who is also the dam of The Shoe and Iron Reward is a half sister to Kentucky Derby winner Iron Liege. Iron Reward's 2nd dam Betty Derr is a half sister to Kentucky Derby winner Clyde Van Dusen.





Iron Maiden
half sister to Judy-Rae the dam of Tulle who is the dam of Courtly Dee
and a Judy-Rae is the dam of Judy Rullah who is the dam of Creme Dela Creme

Iron Maiden is the dam of Iron Liege


Keith

[Keith]

Wildwook by Sir Gaylord-Blue Canoe by Jet Pilot

5x5 Plucky Liege
5x5 Pharos
5x5 Teddy

Laramie Trail the broodmare sire of Not For sale and being out of Wildwook is a half brother to Ride The Rails the dam of Cozzene

Just thought that was interesting

Keith