What's this mare worth?

[tmqh]

20 yr old TB mare, Chays Cupcake. Was told she won 3 stakes races and all her foals have gone on to do very well at the track. Is this mare bred well? She is selling in foal to a son of Mt. Livermore, but she needs to be kept on regumate to hold the embryo. The foal on her side is a scorpion! Awesome baby. Any input is greatly appreciated!!

[Ruffian]

CHAY'S CUPCAKE, 1987, *Keep It Up 2nd- City Edition by Copy Chief.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1994 Shes A Cupcake,Ch,f,Discretion (Fr) 2 18 1 2 3 12,407 ( 70) 0.35
North America Dirt Sprints 11 1 0 1 5,637 ( 64)
North America Dirt Routes 7 0 2 2 6,771 ( 70)
DP = 6-3-2-5-2 DI = 1.25 CD = 0.33 AWD = 6.00
1995 Jitterbug Man,Ch,g,Forever Dancer 3 5 0 1 1 6,376 ( 71) 0.63
North America Dirt Sprints 5 0 1 1 6,376 ( 71)
DP = 4-0-6-2-2 DI = 1.00 CD = 0.14
1996 Yukon Cupcake,Ch,c,Yukon 3 31 6 1 2 51,228 ( 90) 0.72
North America Dirt Sprints 30 6 1 2 51,228 ( 90)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0 ( 62)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 0 0 1,044 ( 84)
DP = 9-3-10-0-0 DI = 3.40 CD = 0.95 AWD = 6.00
1997 Britt's The One,B,c,Forever Dancer 3 21 1 1 2 10,766 ( 75) 0.19
North America Dirt Sprints 20 1 1 2 10,766 ( 75)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 0 ( 55)
DP = 4-0-6-2-2 DI = 1.00 CD = 0.14 AWD = 6.00
1998 Boundingbritt,Ch,c,Bounding Basque 3 21 2 3 3 22,157 ( 77) 0.38
North America 2 YO Record 4 0 0 0 0 ( 63)
North America Dirt Sprints 5 0 0 0 496 ( 64)
North America Dirt Routes 16 2 3 3 21,661 ( 77)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 1 1 4,478 ( 72)
DP = 6-5-5-2-2 DI = 2.08 CD = 0.55 AWD = 8.00
1999 Cartritestradition,Dkbbr,c,Cartwright Unraced
DP = 11-1-5-0-1 DI = 4.14 CD = 1.17
2000 Barren
2001 And What,Ch,c,Blair's Cove 1 4 1 0 1 10,340 ( 74) 0.90
North America Dirt Sprints 4 1 0 1 10,340 ( 74)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 120 ( 57)
DP = 3-1-6-0-0 DI = 2.33 CD = 0.70 AWD = 6.00
2002 One Stack Mac,B,c,Cartwright Unraced
DP = 11-1-5-0-1 DI = 4.14 CD = 1.17
SIRE 0.85 Spi, 185str, 35%2yo, 14%1st, 13%Mud/417sts, 9%Tf/82sts, AWD 6.1
DAM(sp) 0.53 Dpi, 1 2yostr/0wnr, 0%Mud/8sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 4 Rtestr/1wnr, AWD 6.4
2003 Zcake,Ch,f,Diazo Unraced
DP = 7-1-2-1-1 DI = 3.00 CD = 1.00
SIRE 0.82 Spi, 65str, 24%2yo, 0%1st, 10%Mud/126sts, 16%Tf/187sts, AWD 7.3
DAM(sp) 0.53 Dpi, 1 2yostr/0wnr, 0%Mud/8sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 4 Rtestr/1wnr, AWD 6.4


her dams

CITY EDITION, 1969, Copy Chief- Sidebel by Inside Tract.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1976 Folsom Folly,B,c,Rare Breed 1 3 0 1 0 1,662 0.66
DP = 13-5-4-0-0 DI = 10.00 CD = 1.41
1978 Tampa's Tribune,Dkbbr,c,Tampa Trouble 5 55 6 8 7 27,903 0.55
DP = 4-7-5-2-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.72 AWD = 6.00
1980 Jeff's Edition,B,f,Jeff D. 4 56 5 11 8 29,825 0.53
DP = 5-3-2-0-0 DI = 9.00 CD = 1.30
1981 City Trouble,Ch,f,Tampa Trouble 2 14 0 1 1 3,131 0.23
DP = 4-7-5-2-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.72
1982 Daddy's Heatheart,B,f,Hit In Haste 1 10 1 2 2 3,802 0.37
North America Dirt Sprints 10 1 2 2 3,802
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 60
DP = 13-6-1-0-0 DI = 39.00 CD = 1.60 AWD = 6.00
1983 Barren
1984 Ego's Edition,Ch,f,Egostoic 2 16 0 0 2 1,212 0.07
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 0 0 0
North America Dirt Sprints 16 0 0 2 1,212
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 101
DP = 4-4-2-2-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.83
1985 American City,Ch,f,*Keep It Up 2nd Unraced
DP = 7-2-1-0-0 DI = 19.00 CD = 1.60
1986 American Edition,Ch,c,*Keep It Up 2nd Unraced
DP = 7-2-1-0-0 DI = 19.00 CD = 1.60
1987 Chay's Cupcake,Ch,f,*Keep It Up 2nd 4 39 8 11 6 121,824 (100) 2.80
North America 2 YO Record * 4 3 0 1 11,894
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 1 800 ( 81)
North America Dirt Sprints 30 7 8 5 94,635 (100)
North America Dirt Routes 8 1 3 0 26,389 ( 99)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 8 1 4 0 30,520 ( 90)
DP = 7-2-1-0-0 DI = 19.00 CD = 1.60 AWD = 6.41
At 2 3rd Pontalba S. (O) (25,000)
At 4 3rd Venus S. (O) (30,000)
1988 Clothespin Kid,Ch,c,*Keep It Up 2nd 4 25 2 3 2 26,939 ( 88) 0.74
North America 2 YO Record 5 2 2 0 15,120 ( 82)
North America Dirt Sprints 21 2 3 2 26,939 ( 88)
North America Dirt Routes 4 0 0 0 0 ( 82)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 1 0 4,515 ( 82)
DP = 7-2-1-0-0 DI = 19.00 CD = 1.60 AWD = 5.75
1990 Barren
1991 Unnamed,c,Discretion (Fr)
DP = 7-4-2-5-2 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.45

[casallc]

$500 tops.

[springboro]

Yikes... now that is some seriously old bloodlines! She's an 87 model, but her dam was almost 20 when she was foaled.

Keep this poor old dear and don't worry about selling her. She's worth far more to you than you'll ever get out of her.

[tmqh]

Actually, she is not mine. Someone is trying to sell her to me in foal to a son of Mt. Livermore. Me being a newbie to the TB industry, I'm just trying to get an idea of what her value is. She was priced to me at $2500 and the foal on her side, an add'l $7500.
Thanks for everyones opinions.

[madelyn]

Sorry, I second the $500 tops.

[luvthegame]

Not much here just a few one and two race winners scatered around. Chay herself did win $120,ooo with eight wins but she hasnot produced anything close to herself. Also in future post tell who the mare is bred or in foal to, many of us on here dont want to hear "she is bred to a son of Jo Bob" Many sons of the best stallions in the world are not worth breeding a donkey too..

[madelyn]

At 20, she is approaching, or at the end, of her breeding career.

I also despise the "bred to a son of" statement that clouds over the issue that she is probably bred to a horse who couldn't get out of his own way.

This mare is NOT worth $2500.. not even close. What is the stud fee on the "son of Mt Livermore"? That is, proven signed contracts with a fee that was paid by other mare owners.

In Quarter Horses and Saddlebreds, there is "bred to a son of" and "bred to an OWN son of" because that is how they distinguish between whether they refer to the sire or the sireline. In those horses, they do not have the black and white of a race record and earnings to glaringly point to specific abilities. Also, since their shows and judging are subjective (horses don't get blue ribbons by a nose) the lineage might point more to conformation. But still, would you rather have a "son of Peppy San Badger" (where that horse is the great grandsire) or an "OWN son of Peppy San Badger?" And which would have more value?

[wen8t]

I believe she has a Black Moonshine on her side and she is Back infoal to Black Moonshine


One stack Mack is a winner 36,000
z cake no wins in 8 starts

[geowarrior]

Isn't Black Moonshine the Indiana Stallion who is getting very good results with a relatively small book?

[madelyn]

I believe it was stated that the foal by her side is a Scorpion.

[casallc]

I believe it was stated that the foal by her side is a Scorpion.

"The foal on her side is a scorpion!"
I think that is a description not the sire.
While Scorpion is not setting the world on fire as a sire, it is doubtful someone would ship her to FL to bred a mare like that to him. A mare that has to be kept on progesterone to hold on to a foal is not worth much bred to any stallion. The cost of the regumate will soon out weigh (pardon the pun) the value of the mare.

[tmqh]

I tried to pm a few of the posters, but it wouldn't go through. Just to preface, thanks for everyone's opinions. Just to clarify a few things, the term "scorpion" is an adjective I use in describing a horse I think is awesome. Second. I apologize for using the phrase "in foal to a son of..." I wasn't sure if anyone heard of him, so I didn't mention. Get upset about something worth getting upset about. It's not that big of a deal. I am new to the racing industry, but have been training/judging horses for over 30 yrs. I appreciate all the knowledge and opinions I can get from whatever source I can get it. I liked the mare and the foal on her side is tremendous. I was just wanting to know if anyone knew of her bloodlines and if she would be an asset to my interest in the TB industry.
Thanks to the individuals who can advise without sarcasm or negativity. It sure makes it more enjoyable to post.

[tmqh]

wen8t-I tried to send you a pm, but not sure it went through. If not, pm me your email addy.Thanks!!

[madelyn]

Regumate runs about $200-250 per month, and is usually given for the first 4-5 months of pregnancy. Then you have Blood Tests, to see if it can be stopped, so you can figure at least $1400 just to get this mare to carry. As stated, she is 20 and near the end of her productive life. If you are particularly wanting Indiana-breds, there are several posters here who are Indiana breeders.

It sounds like they were asking $10K for the mare and foal? They are not worth that. Just my opinion.