Explanation For Todd Pletcher's Wholesale Failure?

[pfrsue]

Pletcher wins the DERBY next year. I'm willing to bet my $100 against anyone else's $100 that if he has an entrant he wins. Now anyone taking me up on my bet don't try to up the ante. It's my $100 against your $100 in 2008. Pletcher wins!!!!


Larrygene

Hey, aren't you the one who said Curlin was an absolute shoo-in to win the Derby?

[ratherrapid]

Pletcher wins the DERBY next year. I'm willing to bet my $100 against anyone else's $100 that if he has an entrant he wins. Now anyone taking me up on my bet don't try to up the ante. It's my $100 against your $100 in 2008. Pletcher wins!!!! You learn by doing. He's learned a lot this year and next year is his. Guaranteed!!!!


Larrygene

Larry,

the part of ur post i'm unable to get is "u learn by doing". how long has plecher been at this? iIf you looked at the way those horses were handled the last two weeks before the Derby compared to Hard Spun and SS, who would have expected Plecher's bunch to be competitive? Yet, u take SS and Hard Spun out of the race and Pletcher's group looks pretty good. Maybe some people never learn. I'm thinking of Paris Hilton here

[Rokeby Forever]

Pletcher won't change a thing until his clients start leaving him. That's all there is to it.

[halo]

Todd A. Pletcher - thru May 7
starts- 343
wins -89
earnings -$7,879,300
winning percentage -25.9
In the money percentage - 55.4

Im sure his owners will be leaving him in droves.....

[llbean]

Halo,

I think Rockeby's point was that Pletcher is hard-headed on the preperation for the Derby and BC Races thing and that it would (in theory) take his clients leaving him for him to change his ways (because according to Rockeby that's TP's only real concern).

Of course the day of client flight will almost certainly never come, but that wasn't the point, as far as I could tell.

-llbean

[louis finochio]

When trainer Joihn Sadler hit the skids a few years ago, one of his owners told John he didnt know how to train Tb. So the owner changed trainers and his Tb continued to be also rans under the new trainer.

John told me this true story, and most owners whose Tb that dont hit the board will do best to cull their bloodstock and move on to a better class of Tb. The trainers can only train their owners stock, as its the owners who water the weeds and pick the flowers.

[Rokeby Forever]

Thank you, Ilbean...that is what I meant.

Until Pletcher loses a big client because he wins everything but the Derby and BC races, he has no reason not to win every prep and always come up empty in the big ones.

Things might change, though...his clients know that Pletcher's KY Derby is the butt of 1,000 jokes right now and I'm sure they don't appreciate it. If a horse like Sam P goes to stud, people might ask, "Wasn't he one of the 5 Pletcher bums that ran in the Derby?"

[larrygene]

Yes I did predict Curlin to win the Derby, just like almost everyone else on this forum had their pick. I gave mine. Some even agreed with me. No, Curlin didn't win but he beat 17 others!!! And that was only his 4th race. Mighty good in my book.

And speaking of Pletcher. He was taught by the Master, Mr. D. Wayne Lukas. Most of you aren't old enough or were not around when Mr. Lukas came upon the TB scene. He changed the TB industry, for better or worse. Pletcher learned what worked and what didn't work as per Lukas. Most importantly he learned what it takes to get the top owners and how to keep them. I stand by my prediction......Pletcher wins the 2008 Derby. His owners will do whatever it takes to get them and Todd there on the first Saturday in May. Just think we have a year to cuss and discuss the issue. Gonna be fun!!

Larrygene

[Rokeby Forever]

Kiaran McLaughlin also worked for Lukas and got so fed up that he became Chris Antley's agent...he got a nice offer to train in Dubai and went there for a while, and came back here to train for them and he picked up some clients along the way.

Look at the difference between the two. Do you honestly think Pletcher would have won the BC Classic with Invasor? Working for Lukas doesn't mean you have to be a clone, which Pletcher is. Kiaran McLaughlin doesn't run his barn like a factory, doesn't want a lot of attention, doesn't want horses training from here to China under his name, and, in my opinion, runs circles around Pletcher as far as horsemanship.

Kiaran McLaughlin will sooner win a Derby than will Pletcher...the day the Arabs let McLaughlin keep a horse here instead of prepping it in the desert for the UAE Derby. When McLaughlin did run an American's horse in the Derby, Closing Argument almost won it. Any trainer that could get Closing Argument to run 2nd in the KY Derby can flat out train!

Ask Cowtown Cat and Scat Daddy when Pletcher will win the Derby.

[larrygene]

Roke, you're exactlly right!!! Pletcher hopes he's a clone of Lukas. How many KD, TC and BC have Lukas won ? Pletcher hopes to be as successful, ditto for McLaughlin!! Kairan only wishes he had half the owners Todd has instead of the Sheiks who call all the shots. Make no mistake about it. Whether you care for Lukas or not, Lukas changed the sport forever. Speed over speed and precocious two yr. olds that give a quick ROI and the thrill of winning, and hope they hold together as 3 yr olds. Isn't that what's happening today as we speak?? That's all thanks to Lukas. Most trainers only wish to have half his success.

Larrygene

[Rokeby Forever]

Larygene, I can't agree with you. Lukas put his "business" mentality into the industry, but be real...how many of his owners got burned by it? Padua spent $67 Million in two years and now has five trainers. Steve Asmussen operates much the same way but with lesser clients...how many of them are going to be in the business in 5 years?

Is Eugene Melnyk ahead of the game with Pletcher? Without Flower Alley, he'd be walking around with a tin cup in his hand. Now that Pletcher might have to deal with a bunch of Graeme Hall and Flower Alley homebreds, let's see how smart Pletcher is.

I don't think a lot of guys want 200 horses spread out all over the universe. I'm pretty sure John Servis had his offers and he's still at Philly Park with $5,000 claimers. Michael Matz probably had offers and still trains off the training track. Michael Dickenson must have gotten offers after Da Hoss, but he's still training off the farm, as well. I'm not sure that a lot of trainers want to think of the Hopeful as the KY Derby.

[brogers]

Is Eugene Melnyk ahead of the game with Pletcher? Without Flower Alley, he'd be walking around with a tin cup in his hand. Now that Pletcher might have to deal with a bunch of Graeme Hall and Flower Alley homebreds, let's see how smart Pletcher is.

I'd say that after selling interests in Speightstown, Strong Hope and Flower Alley at a value of over $30m collectively Todd Pletcher is doing OK for him (not to mention what fillies like Pool Land are worth).

[hpkingjr]

Brogers said:

I'd say that after selling interests in Speightstown, Strong Hope and Flower Alley at a value of over $30m collectively Todd Pletcher is doing OK for him (not to mention what fillies like Pool Land are worth).[/quote

]

Brogers that's a FOUL, NO FAIR. Please do not try to insert facts and logic into this discussion. This is strictly an opinion forum. If your post has any basis in fact or logic, take it elsewhere. DO NOT try to confuse us with the truth. Our minds are not open to such information.

We do however, love a little trashy posting about thoroughbred notables from time to time. Feel free to post anything trashy.

[Rokeby Forever]

He's been with Pletcher since day one...$30 Million won't get Melnyk out. I can think of two fillies alone that cost over $4 million that never broke their maidens. And, if anything, Strong Hope and Flower Alley would have been better off retiring as 3 year olds. No support for them until they both retired washed up?

[llbean]

He's been with Pletcher since day one...$30 Million won't get Melnyk out. I can think of two fillies alone that cost over $4 million that never broke their maidens.

Still $26 Million and 1 dollars to go.

-llbean