That Special Look of Curlin And His Sire Llines

[louis finochio]

CURLIN CH. c. 2004
Smart Strike----Sherriff's Deputy, by Deputy Minister

Curlin winner of the GR 1 Preakness Stakes has 9 crosses of Phalaris through different individuals. Curlin's 5 generation pedigree has no dupe of any stallions, which breeds hybrid vigor into a mating.

Curlin's sire lines are as follows.

9 crosses of Phalaris thru Polynesian---Nasrullah---Turn-to---Quibu---Outing Class---Nearctic---Menetrier---Sir Gaylord---and TV Lark.

2 crosses of Teddy thru Promised Land and Case Ace.

1 cross of Sundridge thru Count Fleet.

1 cross of Gainsborough Hyperion branch thru Noholme.

1 cross of Fair Play thru Bunty Lawless.

1 cross of Domino thru Battle Joined.

1 cross of Peter Pan thru Jabneh.

Curlin's sire Smart Strike is one of the most under-rated stallions in the country. Curlin's BMS Deputy Minister is having a vintage year and his mares are golden.
When Curlin was coming back to the winners circle I could read his eyes and facial expressions. Curlin is a very intelligent Tb and has the fire in his eyes and big heart with that mordant determined look about him.
Congrats to his connections for a great victory.

[bdw0617]

let me ask you something.... I think this is a funny year when it comes to stallion prospects...

out of "the 3" I think right now, hard spun has the most potential as far as being wisked away to stallion.. the ratioale is simple.. he's a danzing


BUT.. Street Sense, how much sense would it make to be wisked away, when you are competing against your DAD, who is going to be around for awhile because you were aprt of his FIRST crop?

Also, smart strike isn't THAT old and again you can bred to daddy without ALL of the fees and hoopla invovled.

Street Sense's bottom site (dixieland band) is not BAD but isn't like AP indy or anything...

Curlin's bottom side (Deputy Minister) is pretty impressive, but still...

what i am getting at is... I think you might see Street Sense, an MAYBE even curlin hang around for a little longer than this summer

[louis finochio]

As this year unfolds we will find out who is the leader in the 3yr. old division. Both Street Sense and Curlin have the talent, but who has the soundness to dance every dance till the end of the year.

Thats where hybrid vigor comes into play. The horses will tell us who is the best 3yr. old, as they will have the final say.

The breeding background of Deputy Minister is from those old sire lines that have a surplus of soundness, thanks to EP Taylor for not going for the window dressing of fashion bloodstock.

[bdw0617]

what' about Hard spun's damsire? i'm pretty young (23) and don't know much about him.. is he pretty sound?

[Rokeby Forever]

Who cares about Turkoman - there's Darby Dan on that damside....some of the finest blood on earth, m'boy!

[Maven]

As much as I love the Banquet Bell family and consider it one of my top tier families, the Turkoman does bother me from a breeding standpoint, but not enough to deter me if the physical and pedigree match up was legit. With that said, he's a pretty solid stallion prospect, no question.

An interesting stallion prospect is King of the Roxy. I dont know if he'll get a Kentucky birth, but that's a great family that's as consistent as they come at a high level. We can always use more In Reality/Man o' War line stallions.

[Rokeby Forever]

None of Hard Spun's first five maternal dams accomplished much on the racetrack, but you see top horses produced all throughout the pedigree. I learned a long time ago, any horse that has Darby Dan in its veins has a chance to become a top racehorse.

If you want to look at maternal dams that really did nothing on the racetrack, take a look at C P West's damside. I think Tropical Queen was bred to Dynaformer when he still stood for $5,000. LOL!

I think King Of The Roxy is a stretch as far as anything more than a regional sire. His pedigree strikes me as one of those Harry Mangurian (Mockingbird Farm) horses that become "OK" sires in regional markets, like an Iron Constitution type that did well in NY or a Valid Expectations doing well in Texas. The one thing KOTR's got going for him is Valid Appeal.

I think Hard Spun would be a terrific sire for the Phipps mares that lack Northern Dancer, or have it far enough back for Danzig not to duplicate it too closely. There are so many crosses in Hard Spun's pedigree that work with Buckpasser, I don't see how he couldn't sire nice horses for the "Royal Family."

[louis finochio]

Turkoman's BMS Table Play is not in the same league as Deputy Minister.
Table Play is by Round Table and RT is a better producer of quality mares than being a sire of sires.

As most of the sires like RT, that leave their influence through their daughters, will come from female families that are noted to produce the same. If a breeder had a RT mare it would be best to bred that mare to a stallion that was noted as a sire of sires in hope that a colt from that mating would become a successful stallion..

[UmmYeah]

Curlin's bottom side (Deputy Minister) is pretty impressive, but still...

The "but still" would have to be his immediate family, methinks. He's had four siblings race, and they have all been ordinary at best. In fact, his four-year-old half-brother, Comic Hero, ran yesterday at Hollywood Park in a $25K MCL. Finished last. He has yet to beat a single horse in three lifetime starts.

Curlin is a very special racehorse, and I hope he races for a few more years and really lives up to his potential (and his purchase price), but I expect more from a stallion's immediate family, especially at the fee that he'll likely command when he goes to stud.

[Maven]

None of Hard Spun's first five maternal dams accomplished much on the racetrack, but you see top horses produced all throughout the pedigree. I learned a long time ago, any horse that has Darby Dan in its veins has a chance to become a top racehorse.

If you want to look at maternal dams that really did nothing on the racetrack, take a look at C P West's damside. I think Tropical Queen was bred to Dynaformer when he still stood for $5,000. LOL!

I think King Of The Roxy is a stretch as far as anything more than a regional sire. His pedigree strikes me as one of those Harry Mangurian (Mockingbird Farm) horses that become "OK" sires in regional markets, like an Iron Constitution type that did well in NY or a Valid Expectations doing well in Texas. The one thing KOTR's got going for him is Valid Appeal.

I think Hard Spun would be a terrific sire for the Phipps mares that lack Northern Dancer, or have it far enough back for Danzig not to duplicate it too closely. There are so many crosses in Hard Spun's pedigree that work with Buckpasser, I don't see how he couldn't sire nice horses for the "Royal Family."

Well let's really break down pedigree then. The Banquet Bell family is a terrific clan and one that did Darby Dan good through that wonderful Galbreath stock.

Although its a top-notch family, I would not consider it on the same league as a Golden Trail, who's descendants still carry on very well today. The Banquet Bell clan has tailed off considerably from it's once stellar makings. They have been making less and less an impact on the track and in the shed.

They have produced a few solid stallions, the best being Little Current, but even he was consistent but not great. The lesser producing stallions are Grenfall, Chateauguay, etc.

When it comes to King of the Roxy, there's a lot of interesting pedigree aspects to pay attention to.

He is, without question, modestly bred at first look and is a Ohio-bred of all things. With that said, his 3rd dam is the wonderful producer General Store. This is the family of Euro classic winners Al Bahathri and Haafhd, as well as recent grade 1 winners Mia Domina and Spanish Fern. Further back, this is the clan of the bluehen Fairy Gold, dam of Fair Play.

It should also be noted that the In Reality line has been responsible for 4 of the last 7 leading freshman sires, Tiznow, Successful Appeal, Valid Expectations, and Honour and Glory, (with Officer doing a memorable job last year) even though members of this sireline make up less than 4% of the total stallion population.

And in all fairness, saying,

"I think King Of The Roxy is a stretch as far as anything more than a regional sire. His pedigree strikes me as one of those Harry Mangurian (Mockingbird Farm) horses that become "OK" sires in regional markets, like an Iron Constitution type that did well in NY or a Valid Expectations doing well in Texas. The one thing KOTR's got going for him is Valid Appeal. "

is rather unfair considering the best stallion from the Banquet Bell line, Little Current, sired 35 stakes winners while standing in Kentucky, and then Louisiana, and Washington... some very "regional" markets if I do say so myself.

Take Danzig out of the picture and would you still be his biggest cheerleader? I hope Monarchos got the same love from you while he was on the track. At least he managed to win the big dance and comes from a better Darby Dan line.

I'll say it again, Hard Spun is an interesting stallion prospect, but dont get crazy. There's a lot working against him pedigree-wise as there is going for him.

[Danzig]

Kenny McPeek paid $57,000 on the seventh day of 2005 KEESEP for a racehorse. Although he is a master of picking out diamonds in the rough, I don't think he was looking for a stallion prospect. Additionally, I can't think of too many outstanding stallion prospects ever coming from beyond the first two books.

[Danzig]

Kenny McPeek paid $57,000 on the seventh day of 2005 KEESEP for a racehorse. Although he is a master of picking out diamonds in the rough, I don't think he was looking for a stallion prospect. Additionally, I can't think of too many outstanding stallion prospects ever coming from beyond the first two books.

[Rokeby Forever]

Maven,

Actually, Monarchos did "get love" from me while he was on the racetrack. He's a product of the Buckpasser/Hail To Reason cross that I write so much about, I make myself sick! LOL!

The Golden Trail line! Maven, I could close my eyes and kiss you! I have an old friend from Boston that once purchased a tiny, clubfooted yearling for $4,500 later named Fill Ron's Pockets only because the dam was from that family. He went on to win Suffolk's Mayflower Stakes and placed in a stake at Saratoga that summer. Sadly, he colic'ed that fall.

While it's impossible to take Danzig out of the equation of any sire, let's consider that Danehill's Dam, Razyana (or something like that) was a Galbraith bred. None of Danehill's first 3 or 4 dams did anything much on the racetrack, although Natalma is a HOF broodmare. From a weak racing broodmare line, should I have dismissed Danehill from becoming a good sire? His Majetsy - Darby Dan, I'll be darn!!! (and before you clobber me with Natalma, Nostrum was a dud!)

What I find about the In Reality line stallions you mention is that they all have early success that either doesn't continue or their foals don't stay sound. Honour & Glory hasn't sired another Caressing in years, Successful Appeal's Closing Argument and Appealing Zophie were only 1 or 2 hit wonders, Valid Expectations has only one stakes winner in 2007, Tiznow is lucky that Tiz Wonderful popped up (and later disappeared), and they're terribly unsound, to boot....and Officer had a ton of 2 year old winners but has only 1 Graded stakes winner. In Reality is known for soundness and durability, but what happens to foals from stallions from that line? Why should King Of The Roxy have any better success that'll wane as time goes by?

[Maven]

We both know you should never underestimate the most powerful sire producing family in the world, that of Natalma/Almahmoud! Anything from that line has a right at stud if they've accomplished something.

The difference between the two families that the Banquet Bell line has never produced a top stallion.

I wont argue that the In Reality line has had it's short-comings as of late. But it just takes the right one...

[llbean]

Curlin's bottom side (Deputy Minister) is pretty impressive, but still...

The "but still" would have to be his immediate family, methinks. He's had four siblings race, and they have all been ordinary at best. In fact, his four-year-old half-brother, Comic Hero, ran yesterday at Hollywood Park in a $25K MCL. Finished last. He has yet to beat a single horse in three lifetime starts.

All 4 of Curlin's full sibs to race were by cheapo stallions, it should be noted, who weren't anywhere near the class of Smart Strike.

Its not the strongest female line though, I will admit.

-llbean