D Wayne Lukas

[Rokeby Forever]

Ratherrapid...you're right to an extent, but did ANYONE ask Shug McGaughey or Michael Matz, "Was the breakdown the result of the horse's prior race and the way he/she came out of it?" Were people thinking that Barbaro's next race could and most likely would be his last? C'mon!!!

Where do you get the idea that I'm condemning an entire industry? I'm writing about a single race and the aftermath. Prairie Bayou won Union City's Preakness and broke a leg in the Belmont. By all accounts, Prairie Bayou came out of the Preakness sound (I never saw or read that he limped off the track, did you?)...nobody's blaming Tom Bohannan for that breakdown. Where's my industry condemnation?

And....why should I mention Shug McGaughey or Michael Matz in this thread? What's the thread title? Maybe try not to change the subject, Ratherrapid?

[Tiz]

Read my post more carefully, RF.

What about my other questions? And limping, coming off the racetrack after running, by itself, doesn't tell much. What was the cause?

[ratherrapid]

Blame is a strong word for any breakdown unless you have some specific facts. Unknown to me why Bohannan should be any less a villain for PB than Lukas for Union City. I must have missed the Union City thing when it happened though I recall the breakdown. PB I personally witnessed, and was furious. When a horse breaks down like that early in the race something is seriously amiss. Which is my whole point, why pick on one offender when there are so many?

Tiz--i'm just skimming the thread, but if ur asking for facts, that would seem appropriate. I suspect Rokeby is on to something, but, hard to say with out details. Maybe UC was a mistake somehow. It seems so. But, I also recall Lukas and Landulace and Tabasco Cat.

[Rokeby Forever]

I personally saw the Belmont, as well. I remember Tom Bonannan running across the Belmont infield to Prairie Bayou and I remember Mr Mellon receiving the $1 Million TC Points Challenge check and not even wanting it after Prairie Bayou broke down.

You don't see a difference between Prairie Bayou's breakdown and Union Citys? Um....OK. If you don't remember the event (how could you forget if you were in racing or followed it in 1993?), I've provided the clip leading up to Union City's breakdown and the newspaper report afterward. By saying that Union City's breakdown was a freak accident, you're ignoring them. If there was no difference, post the link of any reporter asking Tom Bohannan if Prairie Bayou's breakdown was Preakness related.

Accidents happen...and am I mentioning any Lukas breakdown other than Union City's? Am I mentioning On The Line, Charismatic, Grand Slam, Tanks Prospect, or any other breakdown? Just this one, Ratherrrapid.

Tiz, what was the cause why Union City limped off the track? Ummm....he felt good?

There are other offenders...but their names aren't on this thread title. Start an "Offenders" thread if you like.

[ratherrapid]

Rokeby,sorry, i'm unable to see the difference. this sort of crap, whether it be PB or UC, Charismatic, Barbaro or Pine Island is draining the oxygen out of the sport. To suppose Lukas is more or less negligent or intentionally putting horses at risk than most of the rest of them distorts reality. I'm too tired right now to write a book about it. Let's leave it that I agree and disagree with you at the same time. Probably has to do with reasonable standards of care in the whole racing industry and whether we're talking about that or specifically singling out individuals If the latter, Lukas is in plentiful company.

[Rokeby Forever]

Ratherrapid....nobody's being singled out - how many times do I have to write that there are other offenders? I wasn't comparing Lukas to anyone until you (or someone else) mentioned breakdowns by other trainers. Nobody was writing about standards in the industry until you brought it up. In essence, you're being cavalier about Union City's breakdown because you refuse to look at my posted supports and accept it as "just another breakdown that chance allows to happen."

On another thread, someone wrote how Inesperado broke down in a $4,000 claimer. I know he was an old veteran running for a cheap price, but I don't know any circumstances behind that breakdown....although plenty of people are upset that an old stakes winner was running for $4,000.

The sport already has already had the oxygen drained out of it...it's preempted on TV channels because of a hockey game, little league softball game, or maybe even miniature golf. The sport is poorly promoted and being sold off for housing and shopping developments. And when it comes to breakdowns, you're saying that discussing them is "draining." Is the topic of Polytrack and/or Synthetic surfaces draining, which is an attempt to decrease the number of them by having them installed?

Agree to agree and disagree? OK...that's reasonable.

[wallinga]

He's obviously a pretty handy trainer, shame about Union City, i'm sure there were extenuating circumstances leading to Lukas re running him after he appeared to limp off the track. I am certainly not the first to say he's fallible. But i think the inference that he is a butcher on this post is something of a stretch (unless business is so bad that he is about to open up a butchery.)

[Rokeby Forever]

Wallinga....I write "butchers from Wisconsin." Do I mention any names?

[wallinga]

Wallinga....I write "butchers from Wisconsin." Do I mention any names?

So sorry, does Lukas buy his meat whole sale in wisconsin? you weren't the only one Rok

[Rokeby Forever]

LOL Wallinga!

[hpkingjr]

For the racing fan who has not seen Mr. Lucas with a four year old winner, cast your eyes on the 3rd at Churchill yesterday. Perfectly Golden, a four year old by Geri-Half Gold, both owned and trained by Mr. Lucas won a $15,000.00 maiden claimer race by 5 and paid $23.20.

Who says he can't handle older horses?

[casallc]

Rokeby Forever:

You are, evidently, privy to more information than most mortals or else you are like a fellow I once new that everything he said you needed to divide in half or multiply by 2. You claim that "everyone saw Union City limp off the track” and you also say “Your friend Dwayne had nothing else to enter for the Preakness, so he didn't care that Union City broke both front legs in as bad a breakdown as you'll ever see” but I cannot find any verification of any injury other than a compound fracture of his right front ankle. If you want to be taken seriously, why don’t you back up some of you claims with facts instead of vitriol. You have made it clear that you don’t like Lukas, neither do I, but there are plenty of other reasons without making them up.

[Rokeby Forever]

Cassalc...I guess you weren't alive in May, 1993. Otherwise, you'd have a better memory of that time and events. Read all of the thread (including links to video and facts) before you add something this meaningless to it.

In this case, I'm not privy to more information than anyone else...but you should recall what happened and how the media hounded Mr Lukas as to why he ran Union City after the Derby (Gee, I guess even the media didn't notice that he limped off the track - it was just me), as the NY Times link indicates - or did you simply choose to ignore it at the time...as you do now? The verification of the injury is something I provided...did anyone else? The injury itself isn't even the point...it's what led up to it.

Maybe you'd be taken a little more seriously if you'd stick to the point of this argument. Horses get hurt every day...and nobody is singling Mr. Lukas out because he has had horses hurt and put down in the past. The point is Union City - a breakdown that was inflicted.

When it comes to some of the Lukas defenders on this thread concerning Union City, they'd write "Well, is it fair to write that Charles Manson is a murderer without also mentioning Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer...why do you pick on just one person and not the rest of them, as well?" I love that logic..we can excuse the actions of an individual because others have done the same.


Hpking...that's pretty funny. LOL!

[reenci]

Rokeby,...lets not waste our time ....some people just love DWL ...and thats there right.....just like we can have our opinion of him...which i do ...he's over the hill. as for him training older horses ..i will bet there's not many.......on second thought that might increase because saner minds are not going to give him many more 2-3 yo to ruin. thank god for that.

[Rokeby Forever]

Reenci, I haven't stated an opinion yet. I've stated conclusions.

Have a great day all.