Swain

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:06 am

Anyone seen this stallion in person? I want to say I have but I dont remember anything specifically about him and I dont have any notes anywhere about him.

He's sort of an odd horse. Great pedigree that's got a heavy European family (one of Europe's best), but hasn't been able to get a whole lot of runners here.

His fee is below 10k but his foals are still selling well in comparison.

He had 6 foals sell this past September for 75k, 95k, 18k, 37k, 1.2k, 8.5k. I believe that's an average of just under 40k.

He's only breeding a few mares a year which means less competition for the foal for a select market that obviously still wants them.

I really think im going to send my maiden stakes-winning Mutakddim mare to him. Her dam is by Unfuwain which gives me an interesting RF to Height of Fashion. If it's a filly, I will keep her. He should make an interesting broodmare sire and imparts some good stamina.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:25 am

Hi Maven,

I assume your mare is All For Fashion? I can't comment on him physically but I will offer you some pedigree food for thought (keeping in mind that free advice is usually worth what you pay for it).

Pedigree-wise, almost all of his best foals carry a close strain of Nijinsky II. Of his 9 stakes winners, 5 have Nijinsky within 3 generations. The particular strain of Nijinsky doesn't seem to be important and has appeared through Caerleon, Sky Classic, and Nijinsky himself with the stakes winners. He has at least one winner out of a Shadeed mare and 3yo (who is placed) out of a Hernando (by Nininski) mare.

On paper he looks good with Clever Trick, but his big winners are all out of the same Clever Trick mare who is from the immediate female line of Giboulee. I suspect that the return of foundation Windfields blood to his female line is at play there (and may be the reason behind his success with Nijinsky).

All For Fashion doesn't have the strain of Nijinsky, and Swain's foals with Mr P-line horses have best success when they have Nijinsky under the Mr P (as in Nasheej) or with a strong female family behind them (as in Zain Lass, SP and tail-female to Sweet Tooth). I don't know enough about your mare's family to comment on its relative strength.

Sales-wise, you missed a couple that sold for about $120k and about $217k, respectively. The one that sold for the most was out of daughter of Green Dancer (Nijinsky).

Whatever you do, best of luck.

Morningside · Postby **Morningside** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:33 am

Maven, Swain is a terrible stallion. I would strongly advise you against breeding to him, as it would actually destroy value in a young mare (instead of creating value if you had bred to a good stallion). There are some really good stallions in the 20-30k range, and you should be able to get decent deals with a stakes winning mare...

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:11 am

Yes, she's All For Fashion. She's still on the track with my partners but I get her at the end of November barring any injuries before then.

Mutakddim has a sort of "closed" pedigree that isn't giving me what im looking for. Swain brought in a real interesting alternative.

And I agree that Swain's numbers are pretty terrible, but I wouldn't mind having his blood in my broodmare band and his colts sell pretty damn well in comparison to fee.

With what was given to me on a short list by my advisor, he was the only one aside from Thunder Gulch that I like as a broodmare sire which is important since I dont sell fillies.

Artie Schiller and The Cliff's Edge were both the top suggestions, but neither of which im high on.

Aragorn, Action This Day, Yes Its True, Forest Danger, Ecton Park, and Devil His Due also made the list.

Morningside · Postby **Morningside** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:31 pm

i think yes it's true is a nice stallion. also worth considering are quiet american and silver deputy. their stud fees are very reasonable and both are excellent broodmare sires.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:41 pm

Chock full of Silver Deputy blood and Quiet American just doesn't fit this mare but both are very good additions to a broodmare band, no question.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:40 pm

Maybe you can ask Swain why he went to buy a hotdog down the stretch of the BC Classic?

KAL · Postby **KAL** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:49 am

Personally, I rather like Swain.

Of course, his stats aren't good and he isn't really commercially viable, but how much of this is due to our American bias and market. He could see a rebound with Poly, if he is given a chance to continue here in the States. I love the depth of his female family (which, I believe, goes back to Pretty Polly).

I was at that BC race, in a box near the rail on the near-turn... I thought Swain was coming to visit us. Crazy race... Swain and Silver Charm basically gave it away.

The person you need to ask about Swain is LSB... she rarely posts here anymore, but she owns the dam of one of Swain's best, Stanley Park. I would venture that she has researched Swain ad-nausem.

toadie · Postby **toadie** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:12 pm

Morningside wrote:Maven, Swain is a terrible stallion. I would strongly advise you against breeding to him, as it would actually destroy value in a young mare (instead of creating value if you had bred to a good stallion). There are some really good stallions in the 20-30k range, and you should be able to get decent deals with a stakes winning mare...

Wow, from that 1st sentence I think you should quantify your statement. Do you think he's "terrible" performance-wise, pedigree-wise, production-wise, conformation-wise, or, do you just think he's "terrible" for this mare. I, too, was at that breeder's cup race and I believe his loss was 100 0/0 jockey mistake.

Karie · Postby **Karie** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:35 pm

With the "right" mare I like him a lot!
I almost bred to him last year but got a better deal elsewhere

wallinga · Postby **wallinga** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:42 pm

Morningside wrote:Maven, Swain is a terrible stallion. I would strongly advise you against breeding to him, as it would actually destroy value in a young mare (instead of creating value if you had bred to a good stallion). There are some really good stallions in the 20-30k range, and you should be able to get decent deals with a stakes winning mare...

man...heavy

erins isle · Postby **erins isle** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:39 am

We have only one offspring of Swain in this country, but I can tell you he is difficult, won't settle in his races. But of course you can't judge a stallion on only one desendant.

Karie · Postby **Karie** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:03 pm

SWAIN 7/19/07

He is "eyeing" my 17 month old son Trent. He is a sweet horse!

Regal13 · Postby **Regal13** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:11 pm

Hi Maven,
I saw in your post that you were also considering Devil His Due who stands for $10k (down from '06 @ $15k). I previously posted on a stallion name Devil's Luck who is the only full brother to Devil His Due, but was unraced due to ownership conflicts. He is now under new owners and is standing at stud in Ohio. It's at least an interesting idea to get the identical pedigree for only $1500...... I myself can't help at least wondering how his babies will do......

http://www.devilsluck.com/devil'sluck.html

http://www.pedigreequery.com/devils+luck

Good luck whatever you decide!!

brogers · Postby **brogers** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:28 pm

Might be out of budget but have a look at her with Bluegrass Cat.....breed to a sire the best of his dam....on that thought More Than Ready would get my vote to start the mare off and if you got a More Than Ready filly you would be pretty happy to breed out of a pedigree like that.