Pictures Too!: Update on the girls

[ratherrapid]

nice story! if she's having leg problems migh consider the Roma fly leg wraps from dover saddlry.

[Rushtawin]

Gah.

So I went down to the farm again today, certain I missed something yesterday, and then it dawned on me... the angles on her front feet are COMPLETELY off and the reason I hadn't noticed that was because when I was hosing her off yesterday, the muddy water came to the top of her feet. Today, I hosed her off predominantly on fine gravel, this time for 20min each leg. I then put liniment on her legs, soaked a standing wrap, put more liniment on the portion that'd contact her leg, wrapped her in the soaked standing wrap, added PowerFlex, and then resoaked that entire thing since I couldn't stay an extra 20 minutes to keep hosing her. It's loose enough (frigging standing wraps) to stay on until I go down again on Wednesday, but I told them if it feels too tight when they check on her, that they can just remove it before then. And I restricted her to her little paddock instead of the hilly 35 acres she shares with the others at night.

So now, after this farrier's worked for me for a year and a half, with great results, and then he messed up that badly (on a day he said she was perfectly mannered) that her ankle was 2x the normal size at least, and the horse was so head bobbing lame today that the 10 year old kid noticed, how do I approach that? What do I do? I don't think there's enough of anything left to fix the angles and I don't want her to favor that foot so much that we risk founder... gah. *head desk* At least the hosing took the swelling down a lot, but she's not a happy camper. The one has almost a vertical angle, the other is so slung back, it's a wonder she didn't hurt herself MORE by just walking around the field.

[clh]

Bring him back and show him - ask him what the h$ll??? Perhaps he can put some shoes on her temporarily If not, you'll need to find another farrier .....

[ratherrapid]

if u'd post pics of the feet we could comment. the shoeing job would have to be pretty radical to cause what ur describing. can also post pics at www.horseshoes.com and get comments from expert farriers.

[Rushtawin]

There's almost nothing to nail into. He rasped almost all of her foot away. They look tiny now, they used to look proportional. Shouldn't he have to eat the costs of shoeing if it's that drastic to have to fix? And then there's the problem that her knee is sore from her fetlock being huge from the improper trimming.... yikes. Someone said she'd be lucky if she didn't tear a ligament or tendon from such a steep angle on the foot...

[Rushtawin]

Here's a link to the only pic I got of her feet after the trim job before the camera decided to shut off AFTER the cold hosing, liniment, and soaked wrap job:

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[ratherrapid]

what is visible of the right front hoof looks completely proportionate and normal. pictures lie and this is only one angle. however, I'm unable to see visually a trimming problem here. farriers frequently trim close and barefooted horses are sore for a few days, particularly thoroughbreds. i have never ever seen any affect of bruising of the sole or soreness from trimming go up the leg into the fetlock or tendon area. if you want further comment you might consider posting how you're connecting her trim job to the injury. what does ur vet say about this? nice wrapping, by the way!

[Rushtawin]

I agree that the right foot looks fine. I wish I had more or better pictures, but the left one is REALLY steep when you see it in person. I don't mind a barefoot trim that takes a lot of foot off, but if there's nothing left to fix a steep angle, that's problematic for the current problem.

Thanks for the compliment on the wrap job, that's the first standing wrap I've done unless you count a single time I had to do rundown wraps. Usually the barns I used to work at would use the the things with the velcro attachments (boot & splint combinations) or polos by themselves.

It was pretty funny trying to maneuver the long, thick, soaked standing wrap to stay on her slipper leg snug enough to add the PowerFlex without it slipping when I myself was stuck crouching over a giant mud puddle. My friend, who held the horse when I had my hands tied up with the wrapping materials, devilishly grinned and squirted me with the hose as I was wrapping. It was pretty funny, and I'm surprised I didn't fall into the puddle.

[madelyn]

You could devise an insert to level the foot and put it in a mac boot to put on the hoof until it has a chance to grow out.

It's not what the angle is now, it is what it was before. Any drastic change will evoke a response in the horse.

[ratherrapid]

in the picture the left front looks as if it might have a higher angle. hard to tell. the angle of the hoof in trimming is produced by the length of the toe and the amount of heel removed. a high angle would be produced by shortening the toe and leaving as much heel as there is. if this farrier has done a good job for you in the past, might consider talking to him in a very friendly manner asking him if he sees any relation between the trimming and the injury. he'll tell you what he thinks and why he did what he did. even the best farriers make an occasional error, but, still, that the trim job caused a fetlock or tendon problem would be normally very radical. if you feel the angles are off or inconsistent foot to foot it is cheap to buy a hoof gage and measure them, and a Save Edge Rasp and do a little correcting yourself.

that the farrier trimmed close probably has to do with him trying to save you money by increasing time between trims. in the summer the foot will grow out fast enough.

[Rushtawin]

Thank you all for your input. I'll go down tomorrow and see if she's improving.

[skeenan]

Oh, bummer... regardless of the cause, no fun having a lameness issue like that...

I agree with calling your farrier and talking with him. If he comes back out to look at her, perhaps he can, as Madelyn suggested, shim her hoof, or offer another suggestion/solution. I hope you're able to work something out. And I hope that her swelling goes down soon! Keep us posted...

[Rushtawin]

As you've read, my horse has intermittent lameness, be it past injury flaring up or Lyme's disease, we're not sure. She also is like me and stresses out easily, hence why we both are thought to have ulcers. We've had a calming effect on each other, and she anchors me to my studies and theoretical sanity. Well, not too long ago, her lameness flared back up. Initially, her right front fetlock and left hind hock came up stiff. Okay, no problem, she'll work out of it, no injuries, swelling, or heat existed in those legs. When she didn't, I notified the vets that I'd need them soon (within a week or two), anticipating something wrong but not urgent yet. I had the farrier come in because she was due for a trim, and he claims she has fluid on her knees and a messed up left fetlock, neither of which were the actual case at the time. Unlike her normal self, she was perfect for him, and got her feet trimmed. Her heels are really low and her left front foot is angled way too steep.

Now, we're not sure if the steep angle was caused by the swelling or if it caused the swelling. The vet found a puncture wound that presented like a case of scratches, in other words, only skin deep and already sealed over. The age of the injury seems to be after Friday, because she didn't have it Thursday when the farrier was here and I was there Friday and it wasn't on her. She has a low grade fever today and is partially off her feed. She's favoring her foot, not that I blame her. Her coronet band is twice as big as it should be, and cold hosing it only worked to bring down the swelling yesterday, which is also when she had liniment and was wrapped. Today, she developed fluid on that knee and developed cellulitis, both overnight, probably as a reaction to whatever infection that injury picked up. Additionally, they found a soft spot on her coronet band that wasn't there yesterday that they think is an abscess high in her hoof. She was off also on her right hind, because of favoring the leg/foot with the absess and wound. I'd called them in today because of that low grade fever and because she could barely walk and put yesterday's amount of lameness to shame, even though today and yesterday, she was head bobbing at a walk.

So they put icthamal ointment on her coronet and under her hoof to draw out the absess sooner, gave her banamine (to reduce the fever and have a painkilling benefit), drew her blood to check her blood cell counts and as a Lyme's titer, wrapped her hoof and leg completely up after putting triple antibiotic on the puncture, and gave me SMZ's to administer twice a day. Additionally, they recommend Gastroguard or an equivalent for the ulcers, she needs 1g tablet of Bute and 10 SMZ's morning and night, cold hosing for 20 minutes a day, an Epsom salt soak for another 20 minutes a day, and to have her wraps changed daily for at least the next week.

What this means is that tomorrow, my friend is dropping me off at the barn and picking me back up on Saturday early morning. This means I have to postpone the job training for Vector Marketing until next week. Additionally, I'll be camping out on site of the barn or at other places nearby. This will be either on their couch or on the floor because their daughter begged her dad to let me stay (though he admitted he would have said yes regardless). Her dad, the barn owner, os also is going to take over the 40 minutes of extra care for the mare morning and night after Saturday morning (and for the next 4-7 days after it) and isn't opposed to keeping her in the little pasture as the vet recommended. Additionally, another boarder offered me her couch, and I have a backup, just in case, at my friend's house.

I'm glad that none of my animals' problems regarding health have been been preventable, or else I think I would have been really hard on myself. I'm glad although alarming, everything looks treatable/curable at the moment, though the goats are having problems too.

[Rushtawin]

Figured I'd give you all an update. Sometimes I post these so if I lose the paperwork, I have something to refer to.

I've been following the vets' directions pretty closely. Regardless, her fever keeps going up, it hit 103.8 tonight and as a result, the vet on call was out her on an emergency call. She confirmed what I'd told her on the phone - that the large absess is coming through the front of the coronary band, that there's swelling into the cannon bone and less on her ankle than yesterday, cellulitis remaining on the back of the fetlock and ankle, no fluid on her knee, and possible rotation on the coffin bone/P3.

We switched her off the SMZ's at 10 tablets twice daily onto 30 tablets twice daily of doxycycline. I traded in a bottle of SMZ's since I hadn't touched the second bottle the vet left, and we're to continue the 1 gram of bute twice daily, though for the last 2 days, she had 1 gram in the morning and 2 at night. She gave her two other things, though their names slipped my mind, and left a tube of banamine if her fever goes past 102.5 and I'm to dose at the 500# level.

She thinks it's highly likely that there's bone or joint involvement due to the swelling present, and wouldn't be surprised if the mare is trying to founder. If that's the case, however, the high doses of antibiotics will kill off the majority of the good bacteria, along with the bad bacteria. The bad bacteria will release toxins into her gut and acidify it, as well as into her bloodstream. So shouldn't the antibiotics be followed by probiotics to repopulate her gut and (activated) charcoal to neutralize the acidity and absorb the toxins?

She's already barefoot, so it's just a matter of taking the toe back after putting the hairlines to 30 degrees, and letting her heels stay low when the (lateral?) balances are considered... correct? And frequent trimming? Regarding the homeopathics (probiotics & charcoal) and the Strasser methods of barefoot laminitis treatment, am I understanding that correctly?

I'd post pictures, but I can't find my digital camera. And being on digital roam, my phone won't let me email them to myself to post online. At least the mare is good in spirits: eating for me, standing (for wrapping, cold hosing, and usually for epsom soaks), and putting up with me sticking a thermometer in her nether regions too frequently.

[madelyn]

Soaking in epsom salts is usually a pretty good way to bring the abscess up to a head. However, if you can feel it directly under the skin, like a big blister, you would speed things right along if you would lance it. Then soak it for a long time in warm water (body temp) water with epsom salts to draw out as much as you can. Then take a syringe with Betadine or similar, and syringe it into the cavity through the hole you made. Press all around to get it into the pockets. Then pack the top with furazone mixed with sugar, topped with a thick gauze pad, and wrap. It is unbelievable how much gunk the sugar will draw out.

Systemic antibiotics are only partially effective on an abscess. And yes, the gut flora would be killed too, and you risk colic, followed by founder. The sooner you get the infection out of her body the better.