How does Jack freakin Van Berg not get a stall at Del Mar

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:12 am

madelyn wrote:Thanks, Michael, for the "visual" of horses playing in the surf.

Life generally has its casualties.

Then why bitch and moan about horses dying on the track if "casualties" are just a part of life...? It makes no sense

Postby **Roguelet** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:32 pm

Oh, how I hesitate to get into this... but I must be missing the obvious. Sea water is wonderful. Swimming is wonderful. I have taken horses swimming and it's just about the coolest thing in the world.

Do people swim in the water at this beach? How do they deal with the jellyfish? I've swam with jellyfish... not fun, but not impossible to do. There are certain times that they are more active, and you can steer clear of the water then. I've also been stung. Again, not fun, but I've been through worse in my life than a jellyfish sting.

Did they just let the horses go? No halter/lead? Nobody with them? Why not go into the water with them and keep control of them? That's what I've done when I've taken horses into the water. That's part of the fun of it. :wink:

So what am I missing that makes letting horses swim, even with jellyfish, such a bad thing?

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:45 pm

Those Tb are led into the ocean by the stable pony at their side. I can remember many great trainers would follow this tradition when the Del Mar meet opened.

CA Michael · Postby **CA Michael** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:40 pm

Rogue, Louis is correct, all horses were accompanied into the drink with their grooms (who loved the experience even more than the horses!) Sometimes the jockeys would ride them out from the track. I believe this practice was curtailed in the early 1980's when California suffered a disastrous winter and most of our sandy beaches were carried permanently deeper into shore. The pathway from the track under Highway 1 became impacted and apparently no one complained enough to make them repair it. I wasn't around then!

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:43 pm

JVB can still train Tb as good as those leading trainers. It makes more sense to me to give JVB half of Doug O' Neil's Tb and let him train those Tb at Santa Anita where O'Niel's other 60 Tb are stabled. JVB has the eye and knowledge of finding minor problems before they become major problems and will be a welcome addition to O' Niel's winning team.

If I was a novice and wanted to become a trainer, JVB would be my role model to come up under. JVB has that John Wyane walk and the heart to teach those who are willing to listen. Thanks for being my friend all these years JVB, your friend and admirer Louis.

CA Michael · Postby **CA Michael** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:49 pm

Louis, Santa Anita will be installing its Cushion track during the Del Mar meet. Everyone not going to Del Mar will stable at Hollywood or (God forbid!) be rested at a farm until October.

I agree, Van Berg has forgotten more about horsemanship than all the ex-cab drivers who call themselves trainers and let the vets do the dirty work.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:20 pm

Billy Mott says that Jack Van Berg taught him how to train. That's a pretty big compliment, don't you think?

JimbleBrimble · Postby **JimbleBrimble** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:33 am

The Van Berg quandary makes sense on both sides:

Dale Baird has trained thousands more winners than Van Berg - would you give him stalls at Del Mar? How about King T. Leatherbury?

Alysheba was decades ago, and these days "number of starts per stall" details are more important than mere stature.

Fact is, since the turn of the century Jack Van Berg is a 6% trainer with 107 wins to his credit (compared to 1226 for Baird), eight of which have come at Del Mar.

When he dines at "The Derby" near Santa Anita, should the house still pay his tab based on some perceived level of stature gained decades ago and almost entirely two or three timezones away?

CA Michael · Postby **CA Michael** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:48 am

Baird is a numbers trainer, not a KY Derby trainer. And yes, he should be awarded stalls too at Del Mar if he wants. He is in the Hall of Fame, I believe. Baird is a far better horseman than many who will be stabled there.

Jack's major owners have passed away which has left him with not much stock. His two winners on Saturday should wake up some of these owners who prefer being wined and dined in the Turf Club to Jack's uncultured formal graces. You can bet that many, many trainers who have been awarded stalls at Del Mar will bring with them horses which will not run at the meet. Let THOSE trainers find summer lodging for their animals and give Jack Van Berg a square shot.

As far as the Derby Restaurant goes, they can do whatever they like. Since they sold off most of George Woolf's memorabilia (and fired their chef!) I couldn't care less.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:21 am

I don't know alot about the man or the track, but I would really hate/object if stalls were handed out in a clinical "winning percentage" only basis. It seems cold to me, but if the man has some history, and some horses... I would think the powers that be could find a place. I don't care how old, or how many races he is winning. If he is treating his horses well, showing up and responsible... let the man play.

When the industry grows so cold that it shuts out it's very history, opting for a who's who of current hot trainers, we have lost something great. Personally, I hate the velvet rope.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:56 am

Is there a merry widow that races at Del Mar? Lukas hooked up with Marylou just to get stalls at Saratoga and a table at Siro's.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:10 pm

So how about any of you that have some horses, and think a trainer change is warranted - would you pass some on to Van Berg?

ageecee · Postby **ageecee** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:44 pm

I would give JVB a horse no question about it. But thats not the point. The point is he has some bad horses. At a meet like Del Mar they are looking for quality horses. They are going to give stalls to trainers who run a lot and who have quality horses, JVB has neither.

And im sure stalls were alloted before his filly won the other day, hell they were probably alloted before she even ran her 1st race so nobody knew he had a nice filly in the barn if she hadnt run yet.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:45 pm

Lets play the musical chairs game and move all of JVB TB to Bairds shedrow, and see how many of those JVB Tb score under the magic wand of Baird.

Barbaro06 · Postby **Barbaro06** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:39 pm

dray33 wrote:I don't know alot about the man or the track, but I would really hate/object if stalls were handed out in a clinical "winning percentage" only basis. It seems cold to me, but if the man has some history, and some horses... I would think the powers that be could find a place. I don't care how old, or how many races he is winning. If he is treating his horses well, showing up and responsible... let the man play.

When the industry grows so cold that it shuts out it's very history, opting for a who's who of current hot trainers, we have lost something great. Personally, I hate the velvet rope.

It seems to me that history is forgotten...in Maryland horse racing is oft looked upon as a sport that has seen its day...kind of like "oh well, get over it..."