Lawyer Ron...WOW!

[Monmouth Matt]

tough crowd here....horse has had a hell of a career and it was nice to see him get a G1. Time will tell with his place in class, but if he runs big in the BC then plenty of respect will be due. He ran well at MTH last month, but it was a quasi sprint...flat mile since MTH has been playing rediculous on the front end all summer.He was 10 lengths past Gotcha Gold 50 yards after the wire. He'll be tough in the BC with Pletcher and JV.

[bdw0617]

i'm actually wtih rok on this one... w hen you put a legit grade 2 calibur horse against a bunch of allowence horses.. this is what you get... besides Magna Graduate.

"A bunch of allowence [sic] horses" huh?
Here are the highlights for each horse other than Lawyer Ron before the Whitney.
Flashy Bull: MGSW, Gr1W, $829K lifetime
Papi Chullo: Graded-Stakes placed, stakes winner, 356K
Brass Hat: MGSW, Gr1W, 1.27 mil
Fairbanks: GR3W, Gr1 placed, 227K
Wanderin Boy: MGSW, Gr1 placed, 746K
Sun King: Gr2W, Gr1 placed, over 2 mil
Magna Graduate: MGSW, 2.22 mil
Diamond Stripes: Gr3W, 4 wins in 5 starts, 317K
Dry Martini: MGSW, 439K
Awesome Twist: the only allowance runner in the race, 288K

Also, note that EVERY horse in this field had a lifetime record of winning at least 25% of his starts going into the race.

Lawyer Ron ran an incredible race, setting a track record in the process while breaking from a tough post and beating a stellar field. Anybody that says otherwise clearly does not know what they are talking about. Give Lawyer Ron credit. He proved that he will definitely be a true contender for the BC Classic.

is that the best you can do?

The bulk of Magna Graduate's money comes from his 3rd in Dubai

Wilko came in 3rd in Dubai..would you consider him a top class horse? I sure as hell don't


Flashy bull got a trompted up Grade 1 when he beat absolutly no one.

sun king hasn't won anything important since his 3 YO season.. he is beat known as "that horse who almost beat invasor"


Wanderin Boy... I think rok pretty much summed him up for ya

Fiarbanks won the tokyo City. a grade 3.. and in the weakest Sururban in recent hisotry.. a race Ilike to call "stagger home fest 07".. he came in 2nd... the horse looked like a drun sailer in the last 8th of a mile.a no one wanted to win.

that is not a grade 1 field. Anyone who actually watches races knows, that Lawyer ron, on his A game.. trounces this field. I wll give a little credit to Flashy Bull.. but again... he really hasn't' beanted anyone. I put more stock in lawyer ron's losses than Flashy Bull's wins. Lawyer ron ran in, and showed up as well.. ina STOUT Met Mile.


I won't consider a older horse legit until he beats one of the following horses (on dirt).. Lawyer Ron, Discreet Cat, Premium Tap or Lava Man. and that includes horses like Master Command who I actually like and I think his last race was a fluke...but still.. he hasn't beaten anyone.. in top form at least. the rest of the "field" is a bunch of horses pretending to be grade 1 caliber horses.

[Sam]

Flashy bull got a trompted up Grade 1 when he beat absolutly no one.

sun king hasn't won anything important since his 3 YO season.. he is beat known as "that horse who almost beat invasor"


Wanderin Boy... I think rok pretty much summed him up for ya

Fiarbanks won the tokyo City. a grade 3.. and in the weakest Sururban in recent hisotry.. a race Ilike to call "stagger home fest 07".. he came in 2nd... the horse looked like a drun sailer in the last 8th of a mile.a no one wanted to win..

Is English your native language or are you just too lazy to bother using a spellchecker and proper sentence structure? Here's a little hint. Lacking physical cues and voice inflection, the ONLY way you make an impression online is by how you write. If you are too lazy to make a coherent statement, most people won't be bothered to continue reading them.

Do a websearch for a program called ispell. Install it, USE IT and find your shift and space key, please.

[Rokeby Forever]

These horses run in Grade 1s only because the division is so weak.

Political Force might be even better than anyone that ran in the Whitney...and who is he...a horse that ran by Lawyer Ron in the Met Mile and later won the Suburban? He's a bum that Allen Jerkens and his magic wand made a Grade 1 winner out of! The division is a shambles without Invasor and Premium Tap to beat up on these others.

[Tiz]

Sam, I usually think you're an ill tempered, foul mouthed pain in the rearend, but RIGHT ON this time. Thanks, and BDWwhatever, you've been drinking right? When you get an understanding of how hard it is to win any race, you're going to feel foolish about your current statements.

[UmmYeah]

Right. What Sam and Tiz said.

[Rokeby Forever]

How pathetic is the Handicap division if people are WOWed with Lawyer Ron?
Didn't Lawyer Ron get his butt kicked in the BC Classic last year?

Political Force ran past Lawyer Ron in the Met Mile - PF hadn't even won a stake in his career going into that race. Yesterday, Lawyer Ron carried a whopping 118 pounds...two pounds more than Diamond Stripes, a horse that had only 5 career starts and never won anything more than a Grade III.

Who else ran? Sun King, who hasn't won a Grade 1 in 25 starts....Awesome Twist, who has never won a stake...Papi Chullo, who's never won a Graded Stake...Magna Graduate, who like Wanderin Boy and Dry Martini, has one Grade II win to his credit...Fairbanks, with one Grade III win to his credit...Brass Hat, who has more pins that a voodoo doll......

This is Grade 1 racing? You've gotta be kidding!

[horsenuts]

LR ran the best race of his career and by a considerable margin. That was race horse time and he smoked that field from the 11 post and why I didn't bet him. I thought the post would be to tough to overcome and he had yet to run at Saratoga which is always an unknown but he was simply MUCH the best and obviously took to the track. The sub 1:47 time says it all. Very few horses of the past 10 years would have beaten LR on Saturday.

[Rokeby Forever]

Invasor would have beaten him with two legs tied behind him. He destroyed Lawyer Ron in the Classic last year.

If you want to argue that Lawyer Ron has improved since then, consider: Invasor ran by Premium Tap in Dubai like Premium Tap was standing still.

[horsenuts]

Invasor would have beaten him with two legs tied behind him.

Invasor was life and death to hold off Sun King last year and neither the time nor the Beyer figures were anywhere close to what LR put up on Saturday. Invasor would not have beaten LR yesterday at Saratoga as Invasor struggled on that race track the way many other horses have done down through the decades(and why it's called the grave yard of champions). OTOH, LR did not take to the Belmont track.... but he loves Saratoga.


And kudos to Pletcher for doing a great job with LR. TP put draw reigns on LR thus settling him down and giving him a much better mind-set for race day. LR is a much more professional horse then when Holthus had him and it has paid HUGE didvidends for the owners with his breeding fee continually rising.

[Rokeby Forever]

Saturday. Invasor would not have beaten LR yesterday at Saratoga as Invasor struggled on that race track the way many other horses have done down through the decades(and why it's called the grave yard of champions).

Invasor played with Sun King the final 1 1/16th in the Whitney last year. Sun King came at him with a full head of steam and Invasor said, "Where do you think you're going?"

Magna Graduate was the betting favorite in the Whitney. In the Donn this year, how did he do against Invasor? He finished dead LAST!

And don't hand me Beyers. Bernardini's numbers towered over Invasor's, and Invasor ran by him like he was stuck in quicksand. Lawyer Ron would have gotten dusted yesterday - he couldn't even win the Salvator Mile. LOL!

[horsenuts]

Saturday. Invasor would not have beaten LR yesterday at Saratoga as Invasor struggled on that race track the way many other horses have done down through the decades(and why it's called the grave yard of champions).

Invasor played with Sun King the final 1 1/16th in the Whitney last year. Sun King came at him with a full head of steam and Invasor said, "Where do you think you're going?"

Magna Graduate was the betting favorite in the Whitney. In the Donn this year, how did he do against Invasor? He finished dead LAST!

And don't hand me Beyers. Bernardini's numbers towered over Invasor's, and Invasor ran by him like he was stuck in quicksand. Lawyer Ron would have gotten dusted yesterday - he couldn't even win the Salvator Mile.



Rokeby, you offer little in the way of insight in so many issues such as a "horse for the course" that it's hard to take you serious. Any horse gambler worth his salt plays this angle first and fore most when assessing a race... and any serious horseman knows NO horse runs the same over various tracks.


Bernardini ran ONE time against Invasor hardly a reasonable measuring stick for the two horses such as Alydar and Affirmed or Sunday Silence / Easy Goer. Invasor was supposed to run against Bernardini in the JCG but skipped the race due to a slight illness. Invasor rested while Bernardini worked and why I didn't think all that much of Invasor being HoY off a 4 race schedule just as Ghostzapper did a couple years prior... but so be it.


And FWIW, you seem more intent in stirring $hit as oppposed to serious discussion. You talk loud but are weak on facts and knowledge. Perhaps you should read more and post less for awhile.

[Rokeby Forever]

Horsenuts brilliantly wrote, "any serious horseman knows NO horse runs the same over various tracks."

Let's see....Invasor won the Triple Crown in Uruguay, won the Dubai World Cup in the Desert, won the Donn at Gulfstream, won the Suburban at Belmont, won the Pimlico Special at Pimlico, won the Whitney at Saratoga, and won the BC Classic at Churchill.

Horsenuts...where do you come up with your crap...MAD magazine?

Horsenuts also thought to write, "And kudos to Pletcher for doing a great job with LR."

No kudos to Pletcher for the way Flower Alley ran in last year's Whitney?

[bdw0617]

Flashy bull got a trompted up Grade 1 when he beat absolutly no one.

sun king hasn't won anything important since his 3 YO season.. he is beat known as "that horse who almost beat invasor"


Wanderin Boy... I think rok pretty much summed him up for ya

Fiarbanks won the tokyo City. a grade 3.. and in the weakest Sururban in recent hisotry.. a race Ilike to call "stagger home fest 07".. he came in 2nd... the horse looked like a drun sailer in the last 8th of a mile.a no one wanted to win..

Is English your native language or are you just too lazy to bother using a spellchecker and proper sentence structure? Here's a little hint. Lacking physical cues and voice inflection, the ONLY way you make an impression online is by how you write. If you are too lazy to make a coherent statement, most people won't be bothered to continue reading them.

Do a web search for a program called ispell. Install it, USE IT and find your shift and space key, please.

actually, I have told you in a previous post, I was raised in France so French is actually my native tounge since you were trying to sarcastic.


I can't believe I am actually on the same page as Rok here.... but this race just isn't anything to be wowed about. he beat a bunch of Graded stakes placed horses.. I could care less about the final time..it's not how fast you run but how you do it.

I recall a horse by the name of Flying first class earlier this year ran a 3 digit beyer figure but did it against a bunch of what amounted to maiden claimers.. and besides winning the derby trial.. has done nothing sense.

I like Lawyer Ron. alot. But I was more wowed by his Met Mile LOSS than I am by this WIN.

As visually impressive as this race was.. don't kid yourself. if a morning line came out tomorrow with him, Discreet Cat, premium Tap and Lava man in the same race, he wouldn't sniff anything less than 6 to 1.

[horsenuts]

Horsenuts brilliantly wrote, "any serious horseman knows NO horse runs the same over various tracks."

Let's see....Invasor won the Triple Crown in Uruguay, won the Dubai World Cup in the Desert, won the Donn at Gulfstream, won the Suburban at Belmont, won the Pimlico Special at Pimlico, won the Whitney at Saratoga, and won the BC Classic at Churchill.

Horsenuts...where do you come up with your crap...MAD magazine?

Invasor did not run his best at Saratoga as he won in a struggle over Sun King In fact it was his weakest race of his last 9 starts or so. Now what about that don't you understand, Rokeby? Or do you even know what I'm referring to regarding a "horse for the course"? I suppose Secretariat was at his best when he lost at Saratoga to Onion? Just because a horse wins most of his races does not mean he is dominating on every track. Horses nearly always perform better at some tracks then others. Street Sense has been much the best at CD but at other tracks?.... not so much. Granted, he's still a very nice horse but nowhere near the "super horse" he has shown to be at CD.


"Mad magazine?". Your childish posts are going to go unanswered henceforth. Your know it all attitude with little in the way of substance and understanding is not worthy of further conversation.


And it's unfortunate that you clog and $hit all over virtually every thread that is initiated on this board. I'd ask you to tone it way down but you obviously don't have the self restraint to do so. You rant like a child and post babble filled with nonsense 24/7 while trying to sound knowledgable.