Is there a more worthless Grade 1 then the Kentucky Derby?

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:29 pm

okay maven, we are comparing apples and oranges.

Let's find a horse that doesn't have a Fu Peg esque pedigree that won ONLY the hopeful and then find the same type of horse that won JUST the derby and compare stud feeds starting out

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:30 pm

It's a good race to have on the resume, no doubt, but it's not as important as you're making it. If it was, you'd have shippers pointing for it every year. That just doesn't happen.

Regardless, i'm still waiting for BDW. I really want to know how the Derby is just no relevant in making a stallion but the Classic and Queen's Plate is.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:30 pm

Maven wrote:
# 2005 - First Samurai (Barbaro) Barbaro would have stood for more but we'll never know

I wouldn't put money on that if I were you.

Barbaro was undefeated going into the Preakness with two G1's under his belt. He would have stood for more than 40k. He would have been heralded as Dynaformer's heir.

Afleet Alex (Giacomo) Giacomo has no commercial aspects to his pedigree so doesn't fit your argument

lol, and afleet alex does? Afleet alex has commercial appeal because he won the hopeful, the preakness and the belmont, not because of northern afleet

He has commercial appeal because he won two of the three Classics, NOT because he won the Hopeful. If he had ONLY won the Hopeful, he'd have been lucky to find a spot in Kentucky and for no more than 10k. Fact.

Came Home (War Emblem) We wouldnt know but my guess is War Emblem would have been more

we arne' there for guesses, we are talking facts. War emblem was so unthought of he was shipped to japan

Sort of like your "pedigree speaks louder than race records" Sunday Silence? And actually, the Japanese love anything Kentucky Derby BECAUSE of Sunday Silence.

By the way, that was quite longer than a "few minutes". Where's your proof?[/quote]

we aren't going that route.. I have been busy trying to figure out why my withdrawals aren't going though via paypal for my new bank account.. kinda a little important. give me a minute. my life doesn't revlove this forum, although there were times I wish it did

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:32 pm

bdw0617 wrote:okay maven, we are comparing apples and oranges.

Let's find a horse that doesn't have a Fu Peg esque pedigree that won ONLY the hopeful and then find the same type of horse that won JUST the derby and compare stud feeds starting out

No. I specifically said if you wanted to compare the two, if would have to be on equal pedigrees at equal times. You can make a case for any horse if you're spanning years and pedigree difference. Plain and simple, your argument holds very little water. You said you could prove and you've yet to do so.

Furthermore, you made your original statement about the Derby and then used the Queen's Plate and the BC Classic as examples of better "Stallion making" races. I'd like to see how you can prove both are better than the Derby.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:35 pm

lol, no I didn't maven, you are saying I said that

all I said was the queen's plate is more REVELANT to breeding success than the kentucky derby is.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:40 pm

pfrsue wrote:Well okay, but what Grade 1 race is most prevalent among those?

To me, the argument doesn't make a lot of sense. How many of those top 31 won the Preakness, the Belmont, the BC Classic, the Travers, etc. etc.? Which is the race you pick sires from?

bdw0617 wrote:that's easy

1. the BC Classic
2. Ironically.. the queen's plate
3. The bluegrass.. a major prep for the derby, but this will no longer be the case since on poly

The most hyped race is the derby.. yet people pay millions of dollars for colts who are by stallions who couldn't make it to the derby or were done by the time they made it to the derby. only in america.

There ya go. You said the BC Classic and Queen's Plate hold more value for stallions in the shed. I'd like you to cite examples on how they hold more value than a Derby winner. I'm especially interested in your Queen's Plate take.

By the way, just to make it clear... the post by pfrsue was in response to the top 31 stallions currently by rank, and then your response to him/her directly after.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:54 pm

bdw0617 wrote:
we aren't going that route.. I have been busy trying to figure out why my withdrawals aren't going though via paypal for my new bank account.. kinda a little important. give me a minute. my life doesn't revlove this forum, although there were times I wish it did

]

If it's a new account you put on paypal it will take almost a week for it to go through. My paypal account did that. I couldn't buy Jimmy Choos on Ebay for 5 days. It was the worse week of my life. Seriously.

And dont even bother talking to reps. Ask specifically for a superviser. Otherwise, their customer service reps really give you the run around.

winds · Postby **winds** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:14 pm

I just got into this post, I'd rather win the Arc de Triomphe than the Derby. Always have. Though, if I breed a Derby winner, don't think I won't use it in advertisements. You know I will.

winds

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:16 pm

I'd actually love to see an Arc winner stand here, ala Alleged. But I dont think we'll see that happening any time soon. I was praying for Bago to stand state-side but that didn't happen either.

Foggytrip · Postby **Foggytrip** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:20 pm

"Get ready for dinner"

Since when does Steak and Shake have a dress code?

Barbaro would have stood for 6 figures. The hopeful isnt worth a
Ham sandwich

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:29 pm

I wish I was going to Steak n Shake. We're going to Bellini's and my sister's boyfriend is late.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:42 pm

Maven wrote:It's a good race to have on the resume, no doubt, but it's not as important as you're making it.

Why has Maimonides pointed for it? So, worse comes to worse, he can be another Sky Mesa?

pfrsue · Postby **pfrsue** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:44 pm

Maven wrote:By the way, just to make it clear... the post by pfrsue was in response to the top 31 stallions currently by rank, and then your response to him/her directly after.

Her.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:51 pm

I figured but I was playing it safe! :wink:

LaTroienne · Postby **LaTroienne** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:52 pm

Maven wrote:# 2000 - Yonaguska and City Zip (in a dead heat) (Monarchos) Monarchos stood for more and had similar peds to these two
# 1999 - High Yield (Fusaichi Pegasus) Fupeg stood for more and had a similar ped

I don't think that's true. Yonaguska is by a Nasrullah-liner out of a Mr. Prospector line mare. Monarchos is by a Ribot-liner out of a Northern Dancer-line mare. City Zip is by a Mr. Prospector-liner out of an In Reality-line mare.

In contrast, High Yield was ND on top w/ Mr. P (and more ND) on the bottom; FuPeg was Mr. P on the top with ND on the bottom.