Seeking the Gold is likely to have at least 3 sons retiring to stud in KY for next year: Jazil (although they claim he'll be back, I don't believe it), Bob and John and Wanderin' Boy.
Which of these horses has the best chance to be successful? Jazil will probably get the best mares, given his ownership. Bob and John is physically the most appealing (Jazil and WB are both small), while Wanderin' Boy is the only one possessed of any speed.
So far, STG's most prominent sons at stud in the US are Petionville (underrated), Cape Town (some hits, but spotty) and Mutakddim (up and comer?). Obviously, there was also Dubai Millennium, but you can't bring him back to life. For a stallion as old and successful as STG is, you'd expect him to have had a big hit son at stud by now, if he was ever going to have one.
Would you breed to Jazil, Bob and John or Wanderin' Boy?
Seeking the Gold, sire of sires?
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sunday_silence
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Seeking the Gold, sire of sires?
Last edited by sunday_silence on Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Seeking the Gold, sire of sires?
sunday_silence wrote:Seeking the Gold is likely to have at least 3 sons retiring to stud in KY for next year: Jazil (although they claim he'll be back, I don't believe it), Bob and John and Wanderin' Boy.
Which of these horses has the best chance to be successful? Jazil will probably get the best mares, given his ownership. Bob and John is physically the most appealing (Jazil and WB are both small), while Wanderin' Boy is the only one possessed of any speed.
So far, STG's most prominent sons at stud in the US are Petionville (underrated), Cape Town (some hits, but spotty) and Mutakkdim (up and comer?). Obviously, there was also Dubai Millennium, but you can't bring him back to life. For a stallion as old and successful as STG is, you'd expect him to have had a big hit son at stud by now, if he was ever going to have one.
Would you breed to Jazil, Bob and John or Wanderin' Boy?
Would you consider breeding
I wouldn't breed to any of the new 3 sons of StG until they prove they are deserving. I would consider Mutakddim and Petionville.... though Petionville is overpriced at $15,000.
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JCBloodstock
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I would say the fact that STG is 22 and his 2 best sons at stud are Mutakddim(1991) and Petionville(1992) is why some take him lightly as a sire of sires.According to Brisnet he has 58 sons at stud and basically 3 are recognizable.
Mutakddim has been on the breaking age of fame for more than a few years but I also think Hill N' Dale hinders him somewhat.Petionville is also underated.Cape Town has the Overbrook syndrome of foal shares.
But with only 3 noted sons at stud I'd have a hard time considering STG a sire of sires.I do like his fillies as broodmares as well as Mutakddim's.
As a comparison,Gone West is 23 and has 86 sons at stud and recognizable sons include Zafonic,Elusive Quality,Mr.Greeley,Grand Slam,West By West and potentials in Speightstown,Came Home,Johar,Proud Citizen,Canadian Frontier,Trajectory plus several honest racehorse and regional based sires out there like Perfect Mandate,Performing Magic,Western Expression,Western Fame,Dance Master,Double Honor,Pembroke,Western Borders,Supremo,Rodeo
Sincerely-Jeff
Mutakddim has been on the breaking age of fame for more than a few years but I also think Hill N' Dale hinders him somewhat.Petionville is also underated.Cape Town has the Overbrook syndrome of foal shares.
But with only 3 noted sons at stud I'd have a hard time considering STG a sire of sires.I do like his fillies as broodmares as well as Mutakddim's.
As a comparison,Gone West is 23 and has 86 sons at stud and recognizable sons include Zafonic,Elusive Quality,Mr.Greeley,Grand Slam,West By West and potentials in Speightstown,Came Home,Johar,Proud Citizen,Canadian Frontier,Trajectory plus several honest racehorse and regional based sires out there like Perfect Mandate,Performing Magic,Western Expression,Western Fame,Dance Master,Double Honor,Pembroke,Western Borders,Supremo,Rodeo
Sincerely-Jeff
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Hold Your Peace
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Wanderin Boy is a nice hard knocking horse but he's not a Grade I winner and he doesn't have the sensational dam side of a Jazil or Bob And John.
Jazil is a smallish horse with no speed and those are big negatives against him in the eyes of commercial breeders. Jazil's owner's should support him with some nice mares though so he'll get a shot at siring some runners at least.
Bob And John, despite the awful name, is a good sized horse with speed and he has a terrific damside (he's out of a graded stakes winning Deputy Minister mare and his third dam is broodmare of the year Too Bald). Bob And John should also be well supported by his owner Stonerside. So I expect Bob And John to be the best received of these three.
Although I would also agree that Seeking The Gold is definitely not a hot "sire of sires" and that fact alone would keep some away from all three of these.
Jazil is a smallish horse with no speed and those are big negatives against him in the eyes of commercial breeders. Jazil's owner's should support him with some nice mares though so he'll get a shot at siring some runners at least.
Bob And John, despite the awful name, is a good sized horse with speed and he has a terrific damside (he's out of a graded stakes winning Deputy Minister mare and his third dam is broodmare of the year Too Bald). Bob And John should also be well supported by his owner Stonerside. So I expect Bob And John to be the best received of these three.
Although I would also agree that Seeking The Gold is definitely not a hot "sire of sires" and that fact alone would keep some away from all three of these.
Mutakddim is as solid as it gets, especially for a Kentucky stallion in that price bracket with that pedigree.
Of the new Seeking the Gold prospects, Jazil and John and Bob are both very interesting. Both come from families that have produced good to important stallions, and i'd imagine both will be reasonably priced.
Of the new Seeking the Gold prospects, Jazil and John and Bob are both very interesting. Both come from families that have produced good to important stallions, and i'd imagine both will be reasonably priced.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
Seeking A Home is an unraced obscure sire I am following. According to his owner, supposedly his trainer Shug M. said he was much more talented than his sister Pleasant Home (who won the B.C. Distaff) but he was injured before he ever raced. Anyway, he has been bred to very modest mares and doesn't have many runners, but his average earnings index is right up on top of Valid Expectation's, and is VERY high compared to the comparable index. He also has a pretty strong pedigree (gold beauty dam line). I am thinking he won't have much opportunity to get really good mares, but he might be a good sire if he had a chance.
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kimberley mine
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I think Mutakddim is a good solid stallion who gets overlooked.
Mutakddim's numbers are 1.87/1.52, 7% SW/foals, $45k average earnings and $17k median earnings. Keep in mind that he has several crops racing in Argentina, where the purses are much, much lower; if you could restrict the information to only NH numbers you'd see a very different story. For comparison, Mr Greeley (standing for $60,000 more) gets 1.51/1.69 and 5% SW from foals. Take away Finsceal Beo and Mr G's average earnings is about $43,000. You could look at this and argue successfully that either Mr Greeley is overpriced, Mutakddim is a bargain, or both.
On a sideways tangent, I think that out of the $100,000+ stallion bracket that Seeking the Gold himself is underappreciated. He has a somewhat justifiable reputation as a filly sire, given that all 3 of his BC winners are fillies, but he can and does sire top-notch colts. Moreover, he's done this on conservative books (his largest foal crop as of 2004 is 68) and it isn't uncommon for him to get 12% SW in an individual crop. That said, you almost NEVER hear of a big-name filly going to STG for her first commercial foal...usually Storm Cat/AP Indy/Unbridled's Song or a Euro, occasionally Gone West. Kind of surprising for such a consistent horse, and congratulations if you get a filly.
Mutakddim's numbers are 1.87/1.52, 7% SW/foals, $45k average earnings and $17k median earnings. Keep in mind that he has several crops racing in Argentina, where the purses are much, much lower; if you could restrict the information to only NH numbers you'd see a very different story. For comparison, Mr Greeley (standing for $60,000 more) gets 1.51/1.69 and 5% SW from foals. Take away Finsceal Beo and Mr G's average earnings is about $43,000. You could look at this and argue successfully that either Mr Greeley is overpriced, Mutakddim is a bargain, or both.
On a sideways tangent, I think that out of the $100,000+ stallion bracket that Seeking the Gold himself is underappreciated. He has a somewhat justifiable reputation as a filly sire, given that all 3 of his BC winners are fillies, but he can and does sire top-notch colts. Moreover, he's done this on conservative books (his largest foal crop as of 2004 is 68) and it isn't uncommon for him to get 12% SW in an individual crop. That said, you almost NEVER hear of a big-name filly going to STG for her first commercial foal...usually Storm Cat/AP Indy/Unbridled's Song or a Euro, occasionally Gone West. Kind of surprising for such a consistent horse, and congratulations if you get a filly.
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sunday_silence
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Has anyone heard the rumor that STG isn't doing that great and might be pensioned? Just wondering if there's any truth to it. Last time I was there, he was in his stall, but they wouldn't show him. The groom said it was because he'd bitten a visitor the previous week, which I'd believe, but I was still a tad suspicious.
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magic code
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Petitionville, Mutakddin, and Cape Town are all on the new Stallion Durability list (stallions ranked by percentage of foals that start).
88.6% of Petitionville's foals start, Mutakddin 86.6%, and Cape Town 72.6%. Another stallion by STG -- Hunting Hard -- is on the list as well, with 75.6%.
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=40655
88.6% of Petitionville's foals start, Mutakddin 86.6%, and Cape Town 72.6%. Another stallion by STG -- Hunting Hard -- is on the list as well, with 75.6%.
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=40655