Keeneland Sales Results---Distorted Humor, Unbridled's Song?

Discussion and analysis of thoroughbred stallions.

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Intrinsic Worth
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Postby Intrinsic Worth » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:24 pm

Maven wrote:I'd like to see the "30 different articles" since you're the only one who seems to think Indy is a perfect physical specimen.

This is one of those times where you think you know what you're talking about and you dont. You cant make sweeping comments like this and not expect someone to correct it.

Indy has multiple conformation issues (nothing glaring), his worse being his feet. Hell, he was scratched from the Derby due to lameness.

And for the record, since you brought him up, Unbridled ran 24 times as opposed to Indy's 11, Unbridled's Song ran one more race than Indy.




Everytime I went to see Indy, he was standing in his stall with hoofpacks on his front feet, EVERYTIME!
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Postby Hold Your Peace » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:29 pm

larrygene wrote:SJ had 5 yearlings sell for $350K up to $600K KEESEP sale. I understand some sold for less than stud fee but still not bad for first crop with a $100K stud fee. IMO

Also, Maven I don't think they are having a sale today.

Larrygene



The real story with Smarty Jones isn't just what sold it's also about what DIDN'T sell - He's had 13 of his SEPT yearlings RNA for less than his stud fee in addition to 9 who sold at or below his stud fee so far. Then he still has six more to sell in Book 3, and two to sell in Book 4, and you would expect those Book 3 and Book 4 yearlings over all to drag down his average a bit. So compare these 22 unhappy campers to about 12 commercial breeders who made out alright at this sale. And my guess would be the majority of the next 8 to sell will fall into the unhappy camper category as well. The people who really got spanked were people who either tried to pinhook Smarty weanlings to the SEPT yearling sale or people who bought back their weanlings thinking they'd do better at the SEPT yearling sale. The rundown on these weanlings offered again as yearlings at KEE Sept is ugly:

$425,000 weanling RNA = $45,000 yearling RNA
$170,000 weanling = $70,000 yearling RNA
$250,000 weanling = $235,000 yearling RNA
$165,000 weanling RNA = $70,000 yearling RNA
$110,000 weanling RNA = $25,000 yearling RNA
$350,000 weanling = $350,000 yearling RNA

Now at the FT Saratoga sale there was a big win for Smarty with a weanling who sold for $290k reselling as a yearling for $650k, but when you balance that one with these September disasters I don't think the market for Smarty weanlings in November is going to be too hot.

Now if you're a gambler, and a big Smarty believer, you've got a great opportunity to maybe pick up a Smarty weanling in November (or a short yearling in January) for half his stud fee and by the time you send it back through the Keeneland September sale Smarty's first crop will be running, and if they are winning at that time in addition to running, you could be in for a handsome payday.

You'd like to think that people with Smarty's wouldn't want to unload them for half the stud fee in November or January, and would instead just plan on racing them, but there are going to be plenty of people wanting to cut their losses who'll let 'em go so they can plow whatever they get into another new stallion next year hoping that they'll catch the next big thing NEXT year.

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Postby bdw0617 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:39 pm

Intrinsic Worth wrote:
Maven wrote:I'd like to see the "30 different articles" since you're the only one who seems to think Indy is a perfect physical specimen.

This is one of those times where you think you know what you're talking about and you dont. You cant make sweeping comments like this and not expect someone to correct it.

Indy has multiple conformation issues (nothing glaring), his worse being his feet. Hell, he was scratched from the Derby due to lameness.

And for the record, since you brought him up, Unbridled ran 24 times as opposed to Indy's 11, Unbridled's Song ran one more race than Indy.







Everytime I went to see Indy, he was standing in his stall with hoofpacks on his front feet, EVERYTIME!



he's what.... 18 years old
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Postby Intrinsic Worth » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:48 pm

What's that supposed to mean? Normal, healthy horses don't wear hoofpacks on a regular basis, no matter what their age is.

He has horrible feet, ask anyone who:

A. works with him at the farm
B. followed even just a little bit of his racing career
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Postby Maven » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:56 pm

Intrinsic Worth wrote:What's that supposed to mean? Normal, healthy horses don't wear hoofpacks on a regular basis, no matter what their age is.

He has horrible feet, ask anyone who:

A. works with him at the farm
B. followed even just a little bit of his racing career


Dont bother.

He wont admit when he's wrong. He makes sweeping comments because he BELIEVES he is somehow more informed than the people who actually make a living in the breeding industry.

Truly Bdw, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about with this one... none.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:57 pm

AP's feet weren't as bad as the gray fella on this thread title that wore egg shaped barshoes - and passes those problems down to everything.
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby bdw0617 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:59 pm

which is my point.. damn maven what got into you today? take a chill pill


it's one thing to disagree, which I have no problem with. but to take very other post to make a partin shot is uncalled for.
Last edited by bdw0617 on Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Maven » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:59 pm

I've seen just as many Indy's with questionable feet as i've seen Unbridled's Song. And that is an unbiased fact.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:03 pm

Maven wrote:I've seen just as many Indy's with questionable feet as i've seen Unbridled's Song. And that is an unbiased fact.

AP Indys tend to be too big for themselves.
What synthetics are to California racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby Maven » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:04 pm

bdw0617 wrote:which is my point.. damn maven what got into you today? take a chill pill


it's one thing to disagree, which I have no problem with. but to take very other post to make a partin shot is uncalled for.


What point was that? That you dont know what you're talking about with this one or that "very very sound" means only "ok soundness" in your book?

It's one thing to ask questions and learn from others, it's a whole OTHER thing to make a statement as if it's truth when it's very much not even after it's been corrected, as many on this thread with actual credentials have already attested.
Last edited by Maven on Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.

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Postby Maven » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:05 pm

Rokeby Forever wrote:
Maven wrote:I've seen just as many Indy's with questionable feet as i've seen Unbridled's Song. And that is an unbiased fact.

AP Indys tend to be too big for themselves.


You can say the exact same thing for the Unbridled's. At least be consistent in your criticisms.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:08 pm

Maven wrote:You can say the exact same thing for the Unbridled's. At least be consistent in your criticisms.

Who said Unbridled's weren't?

Back to feet...when Unbridled went to stud, every blacksmith and patch company said, "Cha Ching!" The same can't be said for AP Indy. A lot of his sons don't have foot problems like sons of Unbridled.
What synthetics are to California racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby Cree » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm

Of the few Indy's I have worked with, ALL of them had feet problems. Just because he is a "perfect physical specimen" doesn't make him a source of soundness. Why can't people grasp that?

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Postby bdw0617 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:48 pm

1. how many have you worked with


2. just because all of the what.. 4 you work with, there are more issues in play than just the sire is AP Indy.. that goes for Unbridled song and any other stallion.

AP Indy didn't have feet problems until he retired and went off to stud. Besides a bruise on a foot before the derby, but that is not unsoundness. AP Indy's feet probelm are a man made problem. that is not a genetic problem.

AP Indy throwing ridglings is a genetic issue.

again.. just like I was told in a different thread.. all the points aren't being taken into consideration to just say that AP Indy=feet...

if AP Indy is given a mare that is sound, the odds are dramatically in favor of a sound offspring.

I'm done.
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Postby Cree » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:57 pm

I like how you completely disregard any HANDS ON experience someone has over your THOUGHTS. Anyhow, that is your problem, not mine. Also, you should read your posts before you submit them, they make no sense. Again, not a problem of mine.

Of the AP Indy's I've worked with, none of them came from the same trainer, same owner, same breeder, same track, same dam, etc. They were all different ages, from 2 to 6.

True, there are many issues at play. But, what are the chances they all had thin walled, sensitive hooves? I am not the only one saying they have bad feet. You are the only one saying whatever you are trying to say.

You should be done. You should listen to the people on here, they have a lot of good things to say.