There's a stallion named Running Stag who just plain intrigues me. He raced until six or seven and seemed to get better every year. But he's been a total disaster as a stallion, first in Florida and now in Texas. I think he's on his 5th crop. His starters don't do anything here, and one of his early offspring was in the Fairmount Park paddock sale this year and went for $700.
But I was googling him today, and one of his 2 year olds in training in England went for 35,000 pounds at a Goff's sale in March of this year.
For him to succeed at all, shouldn't he be shipped off to Europe where his pedigree and accomplishments would be more desirable?
Can location create failure?
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vineyridge
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Can location create failure?
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He was an awesome racehorse who DID get better with age. I seem to remember a real nice long stride with lots of "reach".
I see your point. I'm glad he's NOT in England though, coz if he gets some good ones I'd love to see him improve the gene pool here.
I see your point. I'm glad he's NOT in England though, coz if he gets some good ones I'd love to see him improve the gene pool here.
All shouting does is make you lose your voice.
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Rokeby Forever
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This horse was EVERYTHING you could want in a racehorse - turf, dirt, classy, durable...Adena were shmucks with him in Florida.
I really hate the Cozzene bias in this country. Any Storm Cat mutt will get mares that are better than anything Running Stag ever saw. They fed him mares by Vigors, Innkeeper, Technology, and Great Gladiator. Gimme a break!
I really hate the Cozzene bias in this country. Any Storm Cat mutt will get mares that are better than anything Running Stag ever saw. They fed him mares by Vigors, Innkeeper, Technology, and Great Gladiator. Gimme a break!
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
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vineyridge
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Rokeby Forever
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Rick wrote:What mkind of mares would you try to breeding to
Running Stag. Obviously mares bred for early speed.Which stallions? Storm Cat?
Fruit from the poisonous tree? I think NOT, Rick.
Of the top nine performers by Running Stag in 2007, six are out of mares by Mining, Gulch, Two Punch, Stutz Blackhawk, Gold Case, and Prospector's Halo. I think you see the common connection - so why not upgrade the sire line with Running Stag? How about some Seeking The Gold mares? Forty Niner mares? Even some speedy End Sweep mares?
Rokeby Forever wrote:This horse was EVERYTHING you could want in a racehorse - turf, dirt, classy, durable...Adena were shmucks with him in Florida.
I really hate the Cozzene bias in this country. Any Storm Cat mutt will get mares that are better than anything Running Stag ever saw. They fed him mares by Vigors, Innkeeper, Technology, and Great Gladiator. Gimme a break!
That Innkeeper mare that you want to trash happens to be a stakes mare and produced a Running Stag that ran second in the Derby Trial and has made over $200,000. The Vigors mare that I found bred to him was stakes placed. The Technology mare was a stakes winner of over $140,000 and produced an $80,000 winner by Running Stag. The Great Gladiator mare Pretoria, who was bred to him, was a stakes winner. Running Stag got a lot of good Adena mares. That is one thing that I commend Adena Springs for; they have really good mares. The mares that they sell in their sales produce stakes horses for other people; these are not garbage mares.
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Rokeby Forever
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Halo - you'll see on another thread that I think the Adena two year old consignment is always the best in the country.
In response...the point is, Halo - that's how good Running Stag can be. Do you think these are the types of mares that Running Stag needs? No - he needs mares with zip. The Mr P line has been very successful for him in 2007.
In response...the point is, Halo - that's how good Running Stag can be. Do you think these are the types of mares that Running Stag needs? No - he needs mares with zip. The Mr P line has been very successful for him in 2007.
Running Stag came to stand in Texas for 2007 at Turf Express Farm - a relative new comer to the Texas scene, located about an hour and a half north/northwest of the Metroplex and another halfhour/hour south of the Oklahoma state line. They are in the same neighborhood as Valor Farms. Here's a Tb Times story on their plans for Running Stag -
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/stallion-directory/farm.aspx?farm_no=650692
My own observation was that they brought a stallion to Texas who's Progeny's LTE topped the state's leading stallion, Valid Expectations, pricing him below VE's advertized $12,500 fee but as high as the next highest stud fee in the state and pretty much expected mare owners to beat a path to their farm gate. I did not see much advertising appealing to those owners who might want an older, but long-careered versatile runner. Maybe mare owners did beat a path to their farm - I haven't seen how many mares were bred to Running Stag so can't comment on that. However, as Roke points out there is a great deal of prejudice among many Tx/Ok/La based mare owners/breeders and buyers at the sale as to a Cozzene sired, late maturing turfy stallion's offspring. It's a damn shame b/c the idea of having a horse that's a) long careered, b) versatile as to surfaces and c) potentially very classy ought to have more hold in a state with 3 Class I tracks all sporting turf tracks to run on and darn few 'real' turf runners to compete for those cards....instead you see a lot of 5.5 furlong turf sprints being run by horses with every kind of pedigree mix you can imagine. What a waste - our Connally Turf course in Houston is an outstanding turf course and they hardly ever card a race on it so as not to tear it up prior to running the John Connally Cup - this year, 2008, to be run as a GIII race for the first time. This stallion might have real appeal in this state for the long term thinking breed to race mare owner - IF the racing scene were healthier - i.e. if this state's legislature were smart enough to approve slots at the tracks with the result that Texas race purses would be competitive with our neighbors in NMx, La, Ok, and now Arkansas. And we certainly have an abundance of Mr. Prospector sired horses here - or at least those going back to R.A.N. if not always thru Mr. P.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/stallion-directory/farm.aspx?farm_no=650692
My own observation was that they brought a stallion to Texas who's Progeny's LTE topped the state's leading stallion, Valid Expectations, pricing him below VE's advertized $12,500 fee but as high as the next highest stud fee in the state and pretty much expected mare owners to beat a path to their farm gate. I did not see much advertising appealing to those owners who might want an older, but long-careered versatile runner. Maybe mare owners did beat a path to their farm - I haven't seen how many mares were bred to Running Stag so can't comment on that. However, as Roke points out there is a great deal of prejudice among many Tx/Ok/La based mare owners/breeders and buyers at the sale as to a Cozzene sired, late maturing turfy stallion's offspring. It's a damn shame b/c the idea of having a horse that's a) long careered, b) versatile as to surfaces and c) potentially very classy ought to have more hold in a state with 3 Class I tracks all sporting turf tracks to run on and darn few 'real' turf runners to compete for those cards....instead you see a lot of 5.5 furlong turf sprints being run by horses with every kind of pedigree mix you can imagine. What a waste - our Connally Turf course in Houston is an outstanding turf course and they hardly ever card a race on it so as not to tear it up prior to running the John Connally Cup - this year, 2008, to be run as a GIII race for the first time. This stallion might have real appeal in this state for the long term thinking breed to race mare owner - IF the racing scene were healthier - i.e. if this state's legislature were smart enough to approve slots at the tracks with the result that Texas race purses would be competitive with our neighbors in NMx, La, Ok, and now Arkansas. And we certainly have an abundance of Mr. Prospector sired horses here - or at least those going back to R.A.N. if not always thru Mr. P.
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vineyridge
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Running Stag would make a wonderful sport horse sire, I think. That's what is being done with Innkeeper these days.
And I'd love to see how his get do at jump racing. Everything is there for success.
To go back to the original title, he might do better in Virginia, Maryland or Pennsylvania.
I'd love to see how he'd do for jumps with an In Reality line mare.
And I'd love to see how his get do at jump racing. Everything is there for success.
To go back to the original title, he might do better in Virginia, Maryland or Pennsylvania.
I'd love to see how he'd do for jumps with an In Reality line mare.
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I remember when Go Step (a Colorado bred) was standing in CO in the 80's for $500. When he popped up on the leading sires list a big farm in KY snapped him up and moved him there. KY was not the icing on the cake for him and he later went to CA. You can't be farther removed from the heart of TB business than CO but he was sucsessfull there. My answer would be - Lightning can strike anywhere.