Jackson's Full Dislosure would be good.....

[Foggytrip]

So the shoe fits?

[Rokeby Forever]

Ive never lied, decieved, or cheated anyone, with the exception of a few ex girlfriends.

Ahhhh, the days of High School.....the things that a lie and a smile would get ya!

[Green Hills]

So the shoe fits?

Not in this lifetime...

It seems you are so wrapped up in your self that the shoe is a custom fit to you as much or more than anyone else.

[winds]

To those of us who are still honest and broke because of it.....Amen!

wind

[Foggytrip]

Im not going to fight with you on an internet message board. You dont know me and I dont know you. I never attacked you personally, I said if the shoe fits wear it. My statement was never intended for anyone but the people who practice deception, and theivery. Again, if you arent one of those people disregard what I said

[nythoroughbredvz]

has nothing to do with this posting, but something my father told me as I was growing up!
if you have to choose a friend that either lies or steals, pick the thief! you will know when he steals from you! you will never know when you are lied too!

[dray33]

I dunno. So far, this sport has introduced me to some of the nicest, friendliest, most decent people I know. That's from the sales, trainers, owners, farms, breeders, gamblers... almost everyone. I am trying to wrack my brain right now and think of someone who was an a-hole or tried to take advantage... and I can't. Granted, some of the theivery and trickery that goes on is consummated with a smile and handshake, and yes, I am sure I have fallen prey to some of it, without knowing. I have had loses, wins, heartbreak and joy. I've gotten deals that I thought were fantastic turn into soup before my eyes, and I have had rip-off deals turn golden.

After a few years at this, I have met gamblers who have more class than the big machers, and I'm proud to have their contact info on my mobile phone right next to big name trainers and billionaires. Every time I ask for a contact "hey, can you get me to Zito..." or whatever, I have NEVER been turned down, and on the other end of the phone was NEVER a crass or unpleasant individual. Yeah, I know, I pay the bills so it's easy... but that only goes so far. I dig the people in this game... and I have been lucky enough (thus far) to steer away from the takers (I think!).

But the takers are out there. To quote the Rolling Stones: "Just as every cop is a criminal... And all the sinners, saints".

All the best.

[larrygene]

dray33, I have to agree with you. In this game I have met some of the nicest, most humble people in the world. Horseracing WILL make you humble!! But, if its fast, pretty, and shiney, whether its got four legs or two, you better beware!!!!!! Just as any business venture you must do your homework or someone will teach you a quick lesson on how to lighten your pocketbook. This is the best game in town and I'm glad to be a small part of it.

Larrygene

[Monmouth Matt]

I've been shaking my head at this whole post. A few bitter folks. You get what you want out of the game. If your constantly robbed then you didn't do your homework (Jess Jackson)....if everyone you meet is a criminal, then your hanging out with criminals... if you end up with donkeys instead of runners, and didn't learn anything from it, then your just going to lose your money somewhere else anyway.

I'm with Dray on this one....have met some great folks in the biz and a few clowns along the way (10:1 ratio)....maybe I'm lucky, the clowns are always obvious. The bitter folks better do a little self examination and see why their plan has not worked instead of screaming about the other guy. It reminds me of a trader who always complains that the market is rigged...I always figure that that's a guy who can't trade...nothing more...nothing less.

[casallc]

I've been shaking my head at this whole post. A few bitter folks. You get what you want out of the game. If your constantly robbed then you didn't do your homework (Jess Jackson)....if everyone you meet is a criminal, then your hanging out with criminals... if you end up with donkeys instead of runners, and didn't learn anything from it, then your just going to lose your money somewhere else anyway.

I'm with Dray on this one....have met some great folks in the biz and a few clowns along the way (10:1 ratio)....maybe I'm lucky, the clowns are always obvious. The bitter folks better do a little self examination and see why their plan has not worked instead of screaming about the other guy. It reminds me of a trader who always complains that the market is rigged...I always figure that that's a guy who can't trade...nothing more...nothing less.

You're right. Which brings me back to my earlier post that caused such an uproar. Those who profess their honesty and integrity the loudest always make me put my hand on my wallet. If they are so good why are they leaching off of others? Usually those who get cheated are those who invited cheaters in to tea.

[Foggytrip]

The only thing I agree with in the last few posts is when someone professes honesty, tighten that rubberband up

Dray, Im not disputing there are great people in the game. I am saying there are pleanty of swine and scum along the way.

This statement wasnt directed towards anyone particular, it was blanketed. I dont know why there would be a rush to defend a statement like that unless steady theivery is being practiced. If someone said something about wife beaters, I wouldnt be rushing to defend, simply because Im not one.

[madelyn]

I have to agree with Dray and Monmouth -- decrying the conditions of the industry is like complaining about the height of the trees in the forest. It is what it is. The savvier business type moves into an environment, learns its rules, adapts, and progresses. Demanding change in an existing industry to suit one newcomer or another smacks of egalitarianism.

[Sysonby]

One way to keep down the scum factor is to show a little common sense. Some people like being hustled because con men can read their marks expertly and for that brief period of time, the attention is all on you. That might explain spectacular versions of it where everyone can see it happening except the mark. Good hustlers know what their audience needs and that's often just attention and special handling. To paraphrase Don Engels, if bloodstock agents find you far more interesting than the world at large, that's probably a clue.

The best and the hardest way is to cultivate your own little circle of advisors who have your interests at heart. Sometimes it starts with a farm or a trainer or a bloodstock agent. In my case, it was a friend in the business. Then branch out using references and word of mouth.

BTW, this presupposes that you are a client that someone wants. Don't be surprised if people are vetting you while you are vetting them. It's a small world and more often than not, someone has to vouch for you if you want to do business with the quality folks. That's another clue that you are heading in the right direction. Those people usually have more than enough work and slow pays, no pays, general PITAs and whiners aren't appreciated.

[winds]

So you don't think that if these changes were mandatory, with the sport making positive changes in at least one aspect of it's vastness, wouldn't help? You don't think that positive changes like this would bring in people on the edge wanting to come in but afraid to because of this sport's reputation regarding sales?

I think that if people had to take responsibility for their own actions (which right now, they don't ) because they would have consequences to pay for wrong doing, there would be less of it happening.

I have over 3 decades in this business, and I have met, for the most part, exeptionally nice people. I have watched honest people become dishonest because they fell victim to the all mighty dollar. They were making a good honest living, but wanted more and wanted it now. I had to save a boss from an unscrupulus character. I had a friend do some digging and steered my boss away from this person. But for the most part, I'd say 95% of the people I have had dealings with are genuinely nice, honest people that work hard at what they do to provide for their families.

To insure that everyone has those same odds coming in I think is the right thing to do, not the wrong thing.

winds

[Green Hills]

The only thing I agree with in the last few posts is when someone professes honesty, tighten that rubberband up

Dray, Im not disputing there are great people in the game. I am saying there are pleanty of swine and scum along the way.

This statement wasnt directed towards anyone particular, it was blanketed. I dont know why there would be a rush to defend a statement like that unless steady theivery is being practiced. If someone said something about wife beaters, I wouldnt be rushing to defend, simply because Im not one.

No one is defending thieves and criminals and con artists...what is being disputed is the making of a blanket statement...the very definition of a "blanket statement" is that it includes everyone under the blanket...if you say owners are thieves as a blanket statement...the definition of "blanket statement" is that all owners (since they are under that blanket) are thieves. Perhaps you should consider that making "blanket statements" is tantamount to bias, bigotry and prejudice. And are highly insulting to everyone under the blanket...thief or not. If you don't think so, then try substituting other words for "owners" and see if it doesn't get you pounced on for making prejudicial remarks or worse. Blanket statements are the issue. They are by nature insulting and at worst ignorant.

Obviously you don't understand that concept...so I won't belabor a hopeless cause any further.

Go ahead and make "blanket statements" to your heart's content.