A blanket statement is a vague and noncommittal statement asserting a premise without providing evidence. Thats what was intended with my statement, it is not directed to all owners, all agents, all consigners, or all farms. Its inteded for those who practice steady theivery.
I dont care for the tone you carry in your post, so this will be my last response to anything you say. Not only do I disagree with you 100 percent, I am an owner.
Jackson's Full Dislosure would be good.....
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
its all good. I understand where you are coming from foggy, and I see your point. my comments were not directed at you, just my perspective thus far. I too know that forums and bulletin boards can misrepresent the best of us.
I happen to be one of the very few people who have met both you and greenhills, and so from that perspective let me add... i can GUARANTEE that if you both met face to face, you would get along splendidly. silly internet.
And that closes my 2 cents account at about 1.8 cents.
I happen to be one of the very few people who have met both you and greenhills, and so from that perspective let me add... i can GUARANTEE that if you both met face to face, you would get along splendidly. silly internet.
And that closes my 2 cents account at about 1.8 cents.
Okay - here's a scenario for you. A mare is bought in partnership with four people for the foal she is carrying. She foals out and has a nice colt. One of the partners also happens to be a consignor. The foal goes through the weanling sale - starting out with a $100K reserve in the am. A top surgeon from one of KY equine hospital's pulls the colt out of the back walk ring to look at (DING, DING, DING TO ANYONE TO INTERESTED IN HIM - AND DON'T KNOW FOR WHOM OR WHY) so decision is made to drop the reserve to 74K. Final bid comes in at 77K. Colt is sold right? NOPE - consignor (who owns a piece of the horse) told the sales company the reserve was 78K. Miscommunication between some of the owners? Fraud on the part of the consignor? Stupidity on the part of some of the owners? Foal then sells after (in the back ring) for $50K. Consingors fault? Other owner's fault? All the owner's fault? Fraud? Stupidity? By the way - this colt went on to be consigned by the same consignor at the yearling sales - RNAing at $125K and $122K at two different sales. Sold as a 2 year old for $65K.
"We are the people our parents warned us about" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
Sounds more like the Stupidity choice.. consignor doesn't sound bright enough to pull a fast one. Who was it?
Remember that politics and industries have their share of hot air balloons, people who rise with no explanation and nothing but air between the ears.
Remember that politics and industries have their share of hot air balloons, people who rise with no explanation and nothing but air between the ears.
Last edited by madelyn on Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Oh Madelyn - he is one of the top 5 or 10 consignors in all the sales. Since we only owned 15% of the colt we didn't have much say in anything that was done at that time.
Live and learn - what I have learned is to "TRUST NO ONE". A very sad but true statement. And as we learned during our getting out of the partnership from hell - the laws are so blurry it doesn't matter. You own a majority interest in a mare and you can't remove them from the property? How stupid is that????
The only unfortunate thing I see with the entire Jackson suits, etc... is that he ended up settling out of court on them. This means no disclosure so no one really knows if anyone was guilty of anything. Perhaps folks just chose to settle to save attorney fees as they would have mounted up and ended up costing as much if not more than they paid to him to settle out. So unfortunately - no one will ever know ...... "the rest of the story".
Live and learn - what I have learned is to "TRUST NO ONE". A very sad but true statement. And as we learned during our getting out of the partnership from hell - the laws are so blurry it doesn't matter. You own a majority interest in a mare and you can't remove them from the property? How stupid is that????
The only unfortunate thing I see with the entire Jackson suits, etc... is that he ended up settling out of court on them. This means no disclosure so no one really knows if anyone was guilty of anything. Perhaps folks just chose to settle to save attorney fees as they would have mounted up and ended up costing as much if not more than they paid to him to settle out. So unfortunately - no one will ever know ...... "the rest of the story".
"We are the people our parents warned us about" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
The Jackson suit had a lot to do with undisclosed commissions. I have said this before, but the real "corruption" could me far more sinister and difficult to regulate. Here's just one small scenario. You have big consignors at the sales, and big name trainers buying horses for clients. Lots of horses sell, lots of horses RNA. Farm has 10 colts and 10 fillys that have not sold over the course of a sales year. Some of these will need to be trained, some worked on and then trained.
Who get to train these horses?
Who get to train these horses?
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geowarrior
- Leading Sire
- Posts: 3593
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
Well, I've definitely met dishonest a-holes, but I keep hoping that they are in the minority and that my own inexperience was a factor in not being able to recognize them. Also that my inability to keep my mouth shut when I saw an injustice led to some of my present (and likely future) troubles.
However, if the people on this board are anything to go by, there are many many caring and concerned people in the industry, and I mean caring about both the people and the horses. I was just a bit unlucky in my first real foray into the industry. I hope.
However, if the people on this board are anything to go by, there are many many caring and concerned people in the industry, and I mean caring about both the people and the horses. I was just a bit unlucky in my first real foray into the industry. I hope.
geo,
It sounds like you met with the wrong people. That's a shame. Now you know and next time ask for references and talk to other clients if possible.
I've used Green Willow Farm in MD and they are as honest as the day is long. Carolyn is very conservative also in her estimations of prices, I've always been pleasantly surprised. They do a heck of a job getting horses ready too.
winds
It sounds like you met with the wrong people. That's a shame. Now you know and next time ask for references and talk to other clients if possible.
I've used Green Willow Farm in MD and they are as honest as the day is long. Carolyn is very conservative also in her estimations of prices, I've always been pleasantly surprised. They do a heck of a job getting horses ready too.
winds
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Sock Monkey
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:07 am
geowarrior wrote:Well, I've definitely met dishonest a-holes, but I keep hoping that they are in the minority and that my own inexperience was a factor in not being able to recognize them.
Ehhh.... I'm not sure I'd go so far as "minority."
It's not just racehorses, either. Horses are just such an inexact science it makes it easy to take advantage of people. And, similarly, it makes it easy to believe you've been taken advantage of, even if you haven't.
An AWFUL lot of people in this business - at all levels - see owners as walking wallets and see it as their job to take as much money out of that wallet as quickly as possible. Anything they can do to make a dollar today is top priority - the longterm takes a backseat and that is what leads to these problems.