Harlington?
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chicago78
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Harlington?
Has anyone heard stud plans for this horse in 2008? He'll be 6, and I can't imagine they're going to try and race him again. He only ran once this year, winning an allowace race in May, which was after a year layoff. I know he has a world of talent, but it doesn't seem like he's ever going to be able to put a full campaign together.
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bdw0617
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Re: Harlington?
chicago78 wrote:Has anyone heard stud plans for this horse in 2008? He'll be 6, and I can't imagine they're going to try and race him again. He only ran once this year, winning an allowace race in May, which was after a year layoff. I know he has a world of talent, but it doesn't seem like he's ever going to be able to put a full campaign together.
I don't see why not. if he can get healthy for 5-6 starts he can mess around and win an eclipse for best older horse. he's that good.
this year's stud crop has deepened that "middle market".. IMHO if he can race, he's worth more as a race horse next year
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Rokeby Forever
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Melnyk must be PISSED! This horse is only Grade II and can't stand for more than $10,000 - $15,000.
That is...if he can stand at all. Don't ya just love those Unbridled feet? No foot, no horse...that's the cliche, as I recall.
That is...if he can stand at all. Don't ya just love those Unbridled feet? No foot, no horse...that's the cliche, as I recall.
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
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chicago78
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The more I think about it, the more I figure they're going to race him. Even if he throws in another clunker of a year, either form lack of activity or from bad races, he'll be able to stand for $15k based off his pedigree and his G2 win at Gulfstream nearly two years ago. If they can get a grade one win in him, and the Donn Handicap/Santa Anita Handicaps don't look like they'll have any real superstars, they can price him at probably $35 next year (look at Speighstown after his 6 year old year.) That must be what they're thinking. He's a gorgeous horse, and I think he's going to be a good sire whenever they retire him. Just wish it were this year, because I want to breed a mare to him.....
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Rokeby Forever
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Hi Chicago. I was wondering - my guess is that Harlington's best chance of ever winning a "big one" would be on a softer synthetic track. Suppose he does win one. The market is going to know that the victory was on an artificial and because of his foot troubles - would breeders jump to him at $35,000 in such a case?
Speightstown missed almost two years of racing, but his six year old campaign was on the dirt. Had it been on synthetics, I don't know if he would have started off at $40,000 (I believe it was). I think artificials add a monkey wrench to the equation, and some agree and some don't. What's your feeling?
Speightstown missed almost two years of racing, but his six year old campaign was on the dirt. Had it been on synthetics, I don't know if he would have started off at $40,000 (I believe it was). I think artificials add a monkey wrench to the equation, and some agree and some don't. What's your feeling?
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chicago78
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I think it's early to say. I find it hard to think that the Santa Anita Handicap, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic, not to mention the Malibu, Santa Anita Derby, Ancient Title, Pat O'Brien, and any other grade 1's that I can't remember out in California won't be important races for determining sires in the future. They still have extremely top class racing out there.
I think that if Harlington, who looks and is bred amazing, wins the Big Cap, or a race like that, he can stand for $35,000 plus, if marketed correctly. His feet are obviously a huge problem, but if he puts a good capaign together, on the artificial surface or not, he would merit a fee like that. What I find so intriguing about Harlington is that his dam, Serena's Song, has constantly produced colts that run like their sires, basically distance horses that come from out of it, and fillies that are speedballs, much like she was. Harlington's 6 for 8, so when he does run, he's quite a force to be dealt with. Needless to say, I'm rooting for him this year.
I think that if Harlington, who looks and is bred amazing, wins the Big Cap, or a race like that, he can stand for $35,000 plus, if marketed correctly. His feet are obviously a huge problem, but if he puts a good capaign together, on the artificial surface or not, he would merit a fee like that. What I find so intriguing about Harlington is that his dam, Serena's Song, has constantly produced colts that run like their sires, basically distance horses that come from out of it, and fillies that are speedballs, much like she was. Harlington's 6 for 8, so when he does run, he's quite a force to be dealt with. Needless to say, I'm rooting for him this year.
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Rokeby Forever
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Hi Chicago. I'd like to pose this to you:
Student Council is a Kingmambo from old Hooper blood - not badly bred as a stallion prospect.
He got his Grade 1 in the Pacific Classic, in which he defeated Lava Man. Half the horses that ran in that race hated the Polytrack and the final time was a slower-than-molasses 2:07 for 1 1/4 mile.
Do you think that win added to Student Council's worth as a stallion prospect?
Student Council is a Kingmambo from old Hooper blood - not badly bred as a stallion prospect.
He got his Grade 1 in the Pacific Classic, in which he defeated Lava Man. Half the horses that ran in that race hated the Polytrack and the final time was a slower-than-molasses 2:07 for 1 1/4 mile.
Do you think that win added to Student Council's worth as a stallion prospect?
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bdw0617
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ageecee wrote:Wow harlingtons dam was Serenas Song. Why didnt the Lewis keep this horse to run.
If this horse were to retire today he would be only worth a 10K stud fee. Win a Grade 1 and he jumps to 17.5K
I think in this case pedigree along (serena's song) gets him to 25k. and unlike say, half ours and the likes... everyone KNOwS how much talent this horse ovbioulsy has. when right he's probably the best in the world if not he's in the top 3.
when the connections look at harlington, I have a hard time believing tey are thinking get him to stud so we can recoup our money....I think they are thinking home run.
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Rokeby Forever
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bdw0617 wrote:when right he's probably the best in the world if not he's in the top 3.
That's a bit of a stretch...best in the world? Or top 3? In his biggest win (The GP Handicap), he won by a neck over Suave, with It's No Joke and Funny Cide behind them. Were any of them in "elite status" at the time?
He's going to need more than physical excuses to convince me that he had this world of talent that everyone thinks he has.
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bdw0617
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Rokeby Forever wrote:bdw0617 wrote:when right he's probably the best in the world if not he's in the top 3.
That's a bit of a stretch...best in the world? Or top 3? In his biggest win (The GP Handicap), he won by a neck over Suave, with It's No Joke and Funny Cide behind them. Were any of them in "elite status" at the time?
He's going to need more than physical excuses to convince me that he had this world of talent that everyone thinks he has.
Well, considering he toyed with premium tap last year....when he is right, I can't think of 3 dirt horses older then him in training that are better.
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Rokeby Forever
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bdw0617 wrote:when he is right, I can't think of 3 dirt horses older then him in training that are better.
Older than him? He's going to be 6, so you're right...I can't think of three dirt horses aged 6+ still in training that are better. I don't know what's left of Lava Man, so I can't even say that Lava Man is better than Harlington right now.
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bdw0617
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Rokeby Forever wrote:bdw0617 wrote:when he is right, I can't think of 3 dirt horses older then him in training that are better.
Older than him? He's going to be 6, so you're right...I can't think of three dirt horses aged 6+ still in training that are better. I don't know what's left of Lava Man, so I can't even say that Lava Man is better than Harlington right now.
hell I can just think of 3 horses older than him in training, let alone 3 that are better!
let me rephrase. name 3 older horses in training now that could beat premium tap on his game.
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chicago78
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[quote]Hi Chicago. I'd like to pose this to you:
Student Council is a Kingmambo from old Hooper blood - not badly bred as a stallion prospect.
He got his Grade 1 in the Pacific Classic, in which he defeated Lava Man. Half the horses that ran in that race hated the Polytrack and the final time was a slower-than-molasses 2:07 for 1 1/4 mile.
Do you think that win added to Student Council's worth as a stallion prospect?[quote]
I definitely understand the question. There are years when the English Derby is run in like 2:40. Does that make the horse that won that race inferior? It just means the track was soft, or dead, or whatever. Student council comes from a good family too. Kingmambo will likely have some good sons at stud, and Student Council is well bred enough to get a shot. Not every horse that wins a grade 1 in California gets a big shot, (Tinners Way, Milwaukee Brew, etc) Of course his win in the Pacific Classic will enhance his value as a stud. His other stakes win was the Hawthorne Gold Cup, which doesn't do much for his value. People here are skeptical about the Pacific Classic win, and that's probably why they sent him to Japan. The bonus was there if they won, but I would think they were trying to get him sold over there. So a roundabout way to answer the question is that I do think the Pacific Classic enhanced his value, but not as much as it would for a horse like Harlington.
Student Council is a Kingmambo from old Hooper blood - not badly bred as a stallion prospect.
He got his Grade 1 in the Pacific Classic, in which he defeated Lava Man. Half the horses that ran in that race hated the Polytrack and the final time was a slower-than-molasses 2:07 for 1 1/4 mile.
Do you think that win added to Student Council's worth as a stallion prospect?[quote]
I definitely understand the question. There are years when the English Derby is run in like 2:40. Does that make the horse that won that race inferior? It just means the track was soft, or dead, or whatever. Student council comes from a good family too. Kingmambo will likely have some good sons at stud, and Student Council is well bred enough to get a shot. Not every horse that wins a grade 1 in California gets a big shot, (Tinners Way, Milwaukee Brew, etc) Of course his win in the Pacific Classic will enhance his value as a stud. His other stakes win was the Hawthorne Gold Cup, which doesn't do much for his value. People here are skeptical about the Pacific Classic win, and that's probably why they sent him to Japan. The bonus was there if they won, but I would think they were trying to get him sold over there. So a roundabout way to answer the question is that I do think the Pacific Classic enhanced his value, but not as much as it would for a horse like Harlington.