Deciding on Stallions

[Gillies-Fillies]

What is the number one factor in making your final decision?

Advertising doesn't play a big role in my *final* decision, but I'd be naive to say it doesn't have a factor in the choices I make leading up to the creation of a "short list."

First, I think every one of us is swayed one way or another by different forms of advertising (mostly not a conscious thing, but advertising definitely affects most people whether they realize it at the time or not). Some is counter-productive, of course (there are some farms with advertising so annoying that I make it a point to avoid their stallions! But that's another topic...).

Second, I do look to see how much the stallion is being marketed. As a commercial breeder, I want to know that the stud farm is going to advertise the heck out of the stallion I'm sending mares to. I want to know that they're going to promote him with their own high-class mares, as well. Because 2 years from now when I sell the yearling(s), I want to make a profit, and the most-hyped stallions are often the ones that attract big bidders at the auctions.

[fletch621]

My two cents on advertising.... if the farm doesn't believe in a stallion enough to promote it, I doubt I will believe in the stallion enough to breed to him.

[MDO]

Does the hype of advertising ever win out over the stallion himself?

[MDO]

Gillie,

Why would you say that some advertising is counter-productive or annoying? Any examples?

[BenB]

Since racing has become almost history in our we are gooiing to breed to a warmblood stallion with our filly
So first the stud itself, 2ndthe farm and the 3rd haulingdistance.
The coveringprice is only a minor subject in these terms as vet,s bills keeping charges etc are far more important in the total expenses.
But this counts for warmblood breeding and not for tb breeding.

[nythoroughbredvz]

My two cents on advertising.... if the farm doesn't believe in a stallion enough to promote it, I doubt I will believe in the stallion enough to breed to him.

Amen!

[madelyn]

Actually, for me, my situation is this. I have a very nice stallion here in my barn. For me to send a mare out the deal has to be right. By that I mean the contract, the price, the horse, EVERYTHING has to be just right. Most of that comes down to the farm itself, and their willingness to deal.

I did a foal share with Darley last year. It was an absolutely TOP NOTCH experience. Would I do business with Darley again? In a heartbeat. They have really beefed up their line up this year also.

I have four very good mares I am looking to make outside deals on. I will be going to several open houses during the January sale. Even if the framework looks right, I have to Read the Contract to get a full picture.

For example, I received a couple of contracts for foal shares on a couple of my mares. In these particular contracts, the foal was owned 50/50 but the mare owner bore ALL expenses except the sale costs. Which means I would fork out all the care, BC & JC registration and ALL SALES PREP. So I could be into at least $5K. Well if that's the case I might as well throw another bit of money on top, pay a reduced stud fee, and own the entire foal.

There are no absolutes. There is no farm out there I would say I would "never" do business with. There is no horse out there that would cause me to throw caution to the wind and sign on the line to breed to, without carefully reading the contract to ensure I'm getting the deal I thought I was getting. I don't care, at all, about advertising.. except that I feel some of the advertising is really annoying, like those things stuck to the cover of the Blood Horse. In fact, the more advertising there is, the less likely I am to consider the horse. A bit like that line in Macbeth, "I believe the lady doth protesteth too much..", if he's not that great a horse, all the advertising in the world won't change him.

[Cathyleabo]

I am fairly new to this,but all I do is look at my mares shortcomings and try to mate to a stud that can improve those traits. I also keep in mind the "after life", we breed to race, but always look forward to what the animal may do after racing.
Our first baby came out better than I could have hoped for, so I look forward to this years foal. I am about 7 weeks from seeing how my method pans out.

[Gillies-Fillies]

Why would you say that some advertising is counter-productive or annoying? Any examples?

Annoying: online ads that overuse Flash animation that distracts from the rest of the page. Print ads that show doctored photos. (Aarrgghhh! It's not natural to have a photo showing a stallion standing perfectly composed, with a chain in his mouth, but the rest of the lead shank missing from the picture. It's annoying to see a stud posed on the lawn, with extra "grass" PhotoShopped into the picture to cover his feet. I'd much rather see the lead shank, the cracked hooves, and other "blemishes" that tell a truer story. When I see one alteration, I start to wonder what else has been "touched up." Did an artist get rid of crooked legs, or tone down a cresty neck?) Farms that try to be so cutting-edge or quirky with their ads that they end up telling nothing about the stallion are also an annoyance.

Counter-productive: Any advertisement that is misleading is going to cause me to steer clear not only of the stallion advertised, but of the whole farm. If they don't believe their stallion can stand on his own merits without embellishment, I sure agree with them. I pay close attention to all the statistics cited; a lot of times, the information is presented in a way that paints a much better picture of the stud's accomplishments than a closer examination will reveal; occasionally, the data are of questionable veracity, or out-and-out lies.

Errors in spelling and grammar--or even sloppy design--are not only visually annoying, but they make me question how professional the farm is. If they can't tell the difference between "confirmation" and "conformation," how careful are they going to be with TJC paperwork? If they don't care enough to present a professional image to the world and to double check their work before it's distributed, how carefully are they going to follow my mares' specific needs (health & feed routines) when I send her to board during breeding?

[nythoroughbredvz]

thats why I think Darley has the best site, easy to maneuver through. all stallion photos are on a hard level surface, you get to see it all!

[MDO]

From what you guys are saying and to summarize, advertising shows intent on the farm's part to support and keep the stallion's name on the tip of your tongue, but the advertising would never sway you more than the deal, the conformation, the race record or any other pertinent information that you could come up with on your own via the stallion registers or a website. Fair statement?

[madelyn]

Yup, that's about right.

[MDO]

Take the top 5 current leading sires:

Smart Strike
A.P. Indy
Distorted Humor
Langfuhr
Giant's Causeway

Would you breed to a stallion prospect just because they are by one of these stallions or does all of the previously discussed factors trump everything?

[LB]

Take the top 5 current leading sires:

Smart Strike
A.P. Indy
Distorted Humor
Langfuhr
Giant's Causeway

Would you breed to a stallion prospect just because they are by one of these stallions or does all of the previously discussed factors trump everything?

None of those five stallions is a proven sire of sires. A.P. Indy is heading in that direction, but he isn't there yet. The other four still have everything yet to prove in that department. So I wouldn't see any reason to choose a stallion prospect simply because he was by a top sire.

I'd much rather breed to the top sire himself. Why breed to Lawyer Ron for 30K, when you can get to Langfuhr--a proven producer of good horses--for 25K? To me, that decision's a no brainer.

[madelyn]

I'm with LB. Add to that I don't care as much about who the sire of the stallion is as I do about the stallion himself, race record, conformation, etc. PLUS the female family is, to me, as important, if not MORE important, than the sire.