Sunriver

[justmares]

I'm thinking of buying a share (100K) in Sunriver....standing in NY at 15K.
I thought he was good on the track...and I like his dam....especially his damsire Mari's Book. Any comments/observations would be most wecome

[casallc]

Has there been a semen evaluation done on the horse? If so are you privy to it? The number one thing I would be concerned with is - will my mares get in foal.

[Rokeby Forever]

What son of Saint Ballado out there gives you confidence that Sunriver will succeed at the $15,000 level? I'm pressed to think of a son of Saint Ballado that's worth more than one third (1/3) of that and Sunriver is going to get a diet of regional mares.

Just my two cents. If you do buy a share, best of luck!

[habitat]

second the 15k remark.

Dabbler in KY covered 67 mares last year. How many 15k mares will Sunriver get this year and where will these 30 to 40k progeny be sold?

[Jessi P]

$15k seems awful high for NY... what other stallions will he be competing with at that price in NY? The breeders incentives are great in NY... but they are great in other states too, esp with Pa getting the slots and WV getting table games.

[Broad Brush]

100k per share is way out of line for a horse standing for 15,000; especially this horse.

[Topsmeade]

NY can't support a stallion at that fee, and his stallion profile is not a good one.

[Rokeby Forever]

Hook And Ladder is off to a fast start and his foals sell well, and he's now at $10,000. Freud, a full brother to Giant's Causeway, has had spotty success and is still standing for $10,000 (as far as I know). What makes Sunriver worth being the highest priced sire in NY? He had no speed, he wound up being a long winded turfer, and Saint Ballado has sired more talented sons that are total duds at stud. At $15,000, I don't see breeders flocking to his shed....for what reason?

Aaron Jones is standing Half Ours for an initial $15,000 in Kentucky. Does it wave a red flag that he didn't want any part of Sunriver, so the horse is now in New York?

Broad Brush brought up a good point. At a $15,000 fee, how was the $100,000/share calculated?

[DoubleDownStables]

Most of the stud share deals I have seen lately are calculated at 2 seasons per year for the first 4 years and 1 season per year after that. You get on a payment schedule with the full fee for the two seasons due at the begining of each year for four years.

$30k 8 4 years = $120k If that is how it is calculated you are getting a deal.

You just have to hope he doesn't get sold to Korea after two years for $500. Good luck!

[Cathy D]

Hook and Ladder and Freud both got a lot of support from Becky Thomas and her partners. Both provided a lot of support with quality mares as well as in the sales ring. They also retained some to race, and entered multiple offspring in the same races, particularly in the restricted stakes and maiden special weights, to stack the odds in their favor. Certainly Aaron Jones and Taylor Made can provide Sunriver with support, but he still seems overpriced to me at $15,000. The New York breeder's program is a plus, but I think starting him off in New York at a very high fee (for a regional and in particular this stallion) may hurt his chances for success. Remember Artax?

[madelyn]

I have actually seen stallion syndicates calculated quite differently.

I believe when Vicar was syndicated ($10K fee) the price of a share was $22K. When he was sold to Korea, the price was $30K, which returned the shareholder price with a profit.

At $100K per share, Sunriver seems to be priced at least four times the value and in my opinion any chance of profit or investment recovery looks dim, if not remote. But then, perhaps those are "New York prices"...

[Archy]

I have to admit...that once I heard that Sunriver was coming to NY, I was quite interested and excited.....Full brother to Ashado, wow. Maybe we can breed our mare to him. Then I continue to read the article and was a little sticker shocked....My first thought was $15,000 for NY??? I guess I'm still asking myself that question. Obviously everyone is asking that question.

One person in a post in thoroughbredchampions.com suggested they sent him to NY because he had retired too late to fill a decent book in KY. Another suggested that he was $15,000 (and higher priced) because they have to justify his value if he moves to KY in his second year. Another poster suggested that he's not going to leave NY in his second year, the sophomore slump.

Then I dug a little more and found that Saint Ballado has not been much of a sire of sires. Is it too early to tell? I don't know.

I'm sure he will be supported by his owners, but I don't know if he'll be highly supported by the local breeders. I, as a breeder, with all of these questions and factors put together, have decided to go elsewhere.

[reenci]

5k would be about right.......starting at 15k just puts him on the path of failure....who in there right mind would pay 15k...cold cash......not many.....at 5k he would be worth a gamble....and still might not get many paying mares.

[justmares]

Thanks to everyone for your insightful comments. I too thought the $15K fee high for NY. I love St.Ballado as a broodmare sire....as a sire of sires his stats are not stellar...I agree. On the other hand,I believe the Hail To Reason line is attractive in the regional market....what with all the Mr.P and Storm Cat sire line broodmares out there.

I do know that Sunriver is slated to go to the SH for their season....that does look like a good spot for him.

Think I'll just stick to the girls...thank you all for the advice.

[justmares]

Roke......sorry, I realized that I didn't respond to your question on how the share was calculated. I haven't seen the contract yet....
My husband (a lawyer) will review it over the weekend....

I did want to get comments from the message board as soon as I heard about this....you all are very knowledgeable and savvy....even if sometimes, there are "differences of opinion"!!??

I'm new to this industry and have learned alot from "the Board"....it's been a great resource!