Dressage people what do you think?

[WarHorse]

I guess this thread was originally about Dressage.
I know people have been referring to the chin on chest debate. But correct me if I am wrong, but is not the face of the horse supposed to be perpendicular to the ground. Not going beyond that?

As I understand it, this is a training tool for suppleness, not the way they are ridden while showing.

[Cathyleabo]

Crystal, I don't think an F150 could pull the horse and trailer, I think maybe the big F350 might! They are gorgeous horses, aren't they?

[helen in FL]

The rollkur is used for training purposes but not displayed in shows. The nose is supposed to be parallel to the ground which is displaying "on the vertical." There was a study done for rollkur and it was found there is no adverse affects to the muscles or respiration of the horse. Funny, but still a lot of people don't like it.

[madelyn]

Helen, I think you meant perpendicular? For the nose? But there also seem to be riders who think it is parallel

[Lucy]

The rollkur is used for training purposes but not displayed in shows. The nose is supposed to be parallel to the ground which is displaying "on the vertical." There was a study done for rollkur and it was found there is no adverse affects to the muscles or respiration of the horse. Funny, but still a lot of people don't like it.

Thing I don't like about it is that it's a shortcut, and being all about the front end, it doesn't really help the horse develop a natural carriage. In theory, once a horse develops self-carriage, the rider can relax or even drop rein contact and as long as they maintain seat/leg aids, the horse will remain on the bit. I like Anky well enough, but I get the feeling if she dropped Salinero's reins his head would explode. He's actually a lot more relaxed than he used to be, though - if you can find his Olympic test on youtube you'll see a noticable difference. I seem to recall a kerfuffle at the time about Anky working the living snot out of him before the test (rollkur and all), just to keep the lid on.....but that's neither here nor there.

Judges do seem do dig the 'horse-on-verge-of-flaming-out' look lately. Personally, I like to see a more relaxed jaw, but that might just be the way I was trained....I don't like draw reins or side reins, either.

[vineyridge]

What Lucy said.

Couldn't have been said better by one of the ODGs.

[WarHorse]

I like Anky well enough, but I get the feeling if she dropped Salinero's reins his head would explode.

*snip*

I don't like draw reins or side reins, either.

"Uberstreichen!"

POW!

FWIW, I don't like draw/side reins either. But they are tools, and have their place. Spurs and the double are the same. One shouldn't need them, but if one does, they are there.


vineyridge:

While no longer in the Inner Circle, I do know what an ODG is.

[Lucy]

"Uberstreichen!"

POW!

The mental cartoon I got from that is hilarious. Trust me.

FWIW, I don't like draw/side reins either. But they are tools, and have their place. Spurs and the double are the same. One shouldn't need them, but if one does, they are there.

Very true. But in every discipline, there are many who can not tell the difference between a tool and a crutch.

I must admit that my perception may be skewed toward the classical side by force - I have never been terribly coordinated; as a result, the more artificial aids I tried using the worse off I was. I rode far better when I discarded them and focused on using my natural ones. The horses responded quite well, with the exception of a couple lead-mouthed schoolies who just ignored me.

While no longer in the Inner Circle, I do know what an ODG is.

The more time passes since I had to stop riding, the more I feel like I am one. Well, maybe not quite 'D'.
(:::shaking cane::: "You rollkur-ing whipper-snappers get offa my lawn!" )

[kimberley mine]

I look at tools like spurs and double bridles a bit differently. IMO they are precision aids, and when used correctly they are the equestrian equivalent of a laser level. When you are hanging three pictures, using a ruler and a Mark 1 Mod 0 Eyeball line usually suffices. But when you have the house frame built and you are trying to put in the floor so that it is perfectly straight, eyeballing it just isn't good enough.

The thing about them is that you have to know what you're doing, and the horse needs to know what the individual cues mean. There's the rub...getting both conditions to apply.

[robbinsapple]

Hannosaurus is the new Up-and-coming breed.. Well they have been around for millions of years, but I heard there is a registry in the works. To become registered, the horse must be atleast 50% draft, the IQ of a turnip, and must be owned by a human no larger then 5'2", 125 lbs, and must drive a SUV, or pick up, no smaller then a F150, or 1500.

A Hannosarus must never be turned out longer then 1 hour per day. They must have a minimum of 4 boots and bellboots on. 2 rugs, and a padded halter and head bumper. As they are allergic to all forms of bugs, grass, sunlight, and fresh air.

The meal plan of the Hannosarus must consist of atleast 4-8 types of supplements. This, on top of rations, plus hay cubes (soaked in warm, not hot water), plus faxseed oil, sun flower oil, corn oil, and a blood building toni, as well as atleast 3 types of electrolytes.

A Hannosarus must be groomed atleast once a day, with minor clipping once a week, and major body overhaul twice a month. They must never be allowed to grow a coat in Winter. Manes must be pulled, and tailed banged weekly.

I just have to say that had me LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry......had to get that out I know it was like on page one.... That only applies to the snooty little miss priss girls though, there are some who have smart horses!!!
I want to tell all of the dressage trainers/riders and all the race horse riders, before and after the races, you are ALL good riders, hell I wouldn't know how to begin with dressage and I probably wouldn't know what I was doing on a race horse ready to run. (race fit) Those horses are so fit and strong it's unbelievable(sp?) dressage horses and racers alike. Have you seen the muscles????? Sweetie is an ex race horse and she still has muscles EVERYWHERE. Just wanted to salute all of you!

Oh and wanted to ask the dressage peeps, you guys basically have a lot of the bases that we use in reining correct?? I mean as far as the bending etc.

[Elles]

I am the only western rider at a dressage stable and yes a lot of things are the same. I did reining in the past, not any more.
Sometimes I have a riding lesson from the owner of the riding stable and he is mostly a dressage guy but he also did show jumping in the past. I own an appendix Quarterhorse I bred myself and most people would think he is a pony compared to all the tall warmbloods.

[majxmom]

Thank- you Madelyn! "notes form Dr.Gerdheuschmann" look that up and read about "rollkurr"

Dr. Heuschmann has written an excellent new book called "Tug of War: Classical vs. Modern Dressage; Why Classical Training Works and How Incorrect Modern Riding Negatively Affects Horses' Health." He shows many examples with the riders faces blurred out (although I'm sure all of these upper level people are known by their horses). The chapters are:

Who's Responsible for Today's Training Problems?
Riding according to Classical Principles
Basic Equine Anatomy
Functional Connections and their Importance in Correct Training
Correct Physiological Training
Training from a Veterinary Point of View

I got my copy on Amazon. I think it is also available at Exclusively Equine. I highly recommend it to all.

[Elles]

Not all dressage riders ride with rollkur. At our riding school people watch in horror if you dare use drawreins. People ride more according to the classical method and a lot of people still do so. Maybe a horse can be over flexed in the neck for a few minutes but it can't be okay to ride that way for longer then a few minutes.

[WarHorse]

"Uberstreichen!"

POW!

The mental cartoon I got from that is hilarious. Trust me.

My good deed for the day.

I must admit that my perception may be skewed toward the classical side by force - I have never been terribly coordinated; as a result, the more artificial aids I tried using the worse off I was. I rode far better when I discarded them and focused on using my natural ones. The horses responded quite well, with the exception of a couple lead-mouthed schoolies who just ignored me.

I am reminded of a tale posted by a competitor I know: she saw a little girl ride her Arabian mare to an impressive score at a dressage show, then that evening she did it again, just for fun. But this time, bareback with a halter and lead rope - and they did even better than in the ring.

Or, you could just compete with no tack at all.

While no longer in the Inner Circle, I do know what an ODG is.

The more time passes since I had to stop riding, the more I feel like I am one. Well, maybe not quite 'D'.
(:::shaking cane::: "You rollkur-ing whipper-snappers get offa my lawn!" )

A friend of mine in Vermont claims to be an ODG - though she is not "D."

I like your sense of humor.

[RuffianT21]

Helen, I think you meant perpendicular? For the nose? But there also seem to be riders who think it is parallel

This person seems to think it should be parallel...

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-69060