On another forum it's been suggested that horses should be weighed on the day of the race, their weights should be announced during the post parade intro and their weights for each race should be part of their performance lines.
Steve Roman enthusiastically endorses the idea. How do the good minds here feel about it?
Should The Body Weight Of A Horse Be Posted?
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wilf
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There is already enough info locked into the pages of the Daily Form guide to confuse a blind man.Next thing will be when they were shod ,wormed and had their mane pulled. This is why it's so wonderful to lean on the paddock fence and watch them walk around before the rider is legged up,with most horses on lasix anyway,which draws plenty of water weight from a horse,what's the point.? Weighing horses is valuable to trainers to possibly judge how a horse has tolerated his last race. Too much info hides the forest from the trees<or something to that effect>.
Last edited by wilf on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Should The Body Weight Of A Horse Be Posted?
Patuxet wrote:On another forum it's been suggested that horses should be weighed on the day of the race, their weights should be announced during the post parade intro and their weights for each race should be part of their performance lines.
Steve Roman enthusiastically endorses the idea. How do the good minds here feel about it?
would be an excellent handicapping tool.would tell you alot really......how much an earlier effort took out ect....or how much more robust a horse is getting.....of course there are other factors.but overall i think it would be great.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
as for when he was shod or wormed, that could be used also......but its going overboard...i think looking at the horse in the paddock is great, but what if its the first time you saw him race and your a newbie.......even a newbie would see that "hey" 
this horse is 50-75 # lighter than his last race a month ago.............
this horse is 50-75 # lighter than his last race a month ago.............A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
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Patuxet
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The fellow who originally posited the idea is a Greyhound trainer. He elaborated on his notion thusly:
Ideally, you'd weigh them as they came into the paddock area, before saddling up. What you want to determine is whether or not the horse had some sort of trouble that caused him to go off his feed, and to lose weight, or had gained an inordinate amount of weight due to inactivity or not enough preparation. Horses will begin to show patterns of weight maintenance, gain or loss, which will correspond to their racing form. For the handicapper, this information would prove to be nearly as useful as time figures, imo.
If you wanted to make it really interesting, and to keep the trainers on their toes, you could have the trainer establish a "set" racing weight for the horse----which could be changed, up or down, within a fixed precentage of the horse's set weight, but for only limited time after a race. So the horse would have to weigh in within a variance of the set weight (for example, within 2%, up or down), or be scratched. In the case of horses who were off for protracted periods of time, the trainer would be allowed to establish a new "set weight" without restriction.
We've been doing this in Greyhound Racing forever. You have to weigh in within 1 1/2 pounds of the dogs set weight, either higher or lower----or the dog is scratched, and the trainer is fined. You can change the set weight, up or down, one pound at a time, at the scale or the next day, which will take effect the next time the horse races. I could generally tell if one of my racers was as little as a half pound light or heavy, so it's not an impossible task for a trainer who's paying attention.
Ideally, you'd weigh them as they came into the paddock area, before saddling up. What you want to determine is whether or not the horse had some sort of trouble that caused him to go off his feed, and to lose weight, or had gained an inordinate amount of weight due to inactivity or not enough preparation. Horses will begin to show patterns of weight maintenance, gain or loss, which will correspond to their racing form. For the handicapper, this information would prove to be nearly as useful as time figures, imo.
If you wanted to make it really interesting, and to keep the trainers on their toes, you could have the trainer establish a "set" racing weight for the horse----which could be changed, up or down, within a fixed precentage of the horse's set weight, but for only limited time after a race. So the horse would have to weigh in within a variance of the set weight (for example, within 2%, up or down), or be scratched. In the case of horses who were off for protracted periods of time, the trainer would be allowed to establish a new "set weight" without restriction.
We've been doing this in Greyhound Racing forever. You have to weigh in within 1 1/2 pounds of the dogs set weight, either higher or lower----or the dog is scratched, and the trainer is fined. You can change the set weight, up or down, one pound at a time, at the scale or the next day, which will take effect the next time the horse races. I could generally tell if one of my racers was as little as a half pound light or heavy, so it's not an impossible task for a trainer who's paying attention.
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wilf
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Yes Patuxet I am familiar with Greyhound procedures ,they are beautiful dogs. The funny thing is that they actually slow dogs down to cash a ticket on another dog in a race or to bet the dog next time by giving them a big drink just before post time, weighing them would possibly eliminate that practice. Of course I am talking about the smaller tracks with absolutely no money where the only thrill is to cash a bet. England and Ireland are classic scenarios for that.
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Mickey the Marcher
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Dogs are weighed in Ireland and England, just like in the USA. There is a limit of several pounds, up or down, from their last race weight that they are allowed. Outside of that weight they are not allowed to run.
Besides HK, i believe Australia also gives horse weights in t he program. Personally I think people get a little too carried away with information and stats. I don't know how much can be gleamed from the numbers themselves, unless you know some of the background of what's going on with the horse. Is the fact that the horse is 100lbs lighter a good thing (he was overweight to begin with and not fit) or a bad thing (has he gone off his feed and lost condition)? Raw numbers don't tell you those things.
Besides HK, i believe Australia also gives horse weights in t he program. Personally I think people get a little too carried away with information and stats. I don't know how much can be gleamed from the numbers themselves, unless you know some of the background of what's going on with the horse. Is the fact that the horse is 100lbs lighter a good thing (he was overweight to begin with and not fit) or a bad thing (has he gone off his feed and lost condition)? Raw numbers don't tell you those things.
Wilf,
I don't know whether it is the British sense of hummer or what but I had a good laugh at your post.What happens if a horse goes to the bathroom ten times before the race,would be a pound or two lighter, there is enough to keep track of without weighing them.
Roll up roll up see the elephant only shi##S twice a year,
don't go to close laddie,
to late dig him out.
I don't know whether it is the British sense of hummer or what but I had a good laugh at your post.What happens if a horse goes to the bathroom ten times before the race,would be a pound or two lighter, there is enough to keep track of without weighing them.
Roll up roll up see the elephant only shi##S twice a year,
don't go to close laddie,
to late dig him out.
All gave some,
some gave all
some gave all
wilf wrote:Yes Patuxet I am familiar with Greyhound procedures ,they are beautiful dogs. The funny thing is that they actually slow dogs down to cash a ticket on another dog in a race or to bet the dog next time by giving them a big drink just before post time, weighing them would possibly eliminate that practice. Of course I am talking about the smaller tracks with absolutely no money where the only thrill is to cash a bet. England and Ireland are classic scenarios for that.
I don't know much about dog racing, but that's about the only thing I do know. It's the classic fiddle on dog racing to feed or water a dog just before a race. I think they have vets in the paddock or receiving barn or whatever they have to feel their bellies, don't they? It seems like it would be a snap to detect a full belly or bladder in a dog; I used to have to do that in a vet's office during pre-ops. Not so reliable to detect that in a horse.
I've often wondered, why bother sponging when a bucket of water would do the trick just the same? I guess it's a matter of the timing. You can sponge in the middle of the night, but you'd have to give them the water while the groom was standing pretty close.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.