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Shammy Davis wrote:Reese suggested:I misrepresented that article as much as you misrepresented the "alleged" safety of polytrack.
The proof is there for everyone to see that you did misrepresent the article to support your claims. Shame. Shame.
Robby Albarado:
All synthetics are not the same.
reese wrote:
"At the March summit, Dr. Mary Scollay, the track veterinarian at Calder Race Course and Gulfstream Park, reported on the initial results of information compiled from injury and fatality reports from regulatory veterinarians at 42 racetracks. During the reporting period, there were 244 fatalities from 123,890 starters on dirt, for a ratio of 1.96 per 1,000 starts. For the tracks with synthetic surfaces, the ratio of 58 fatalities from 29,744 starts was 1.95 per 1,000 starts".
Dr. Roman raises some important questions here shammy. What say you to some of the questions he raises in his statement?
Shammy Davis wrote:Whirlaway posted:Dr. Roman raises some important questions here shammy. What say you to some of the questions he raises in his statement?
First, forgive me, who is Dr. Roman? Reese? Secondly, of course, I am open to discussion as long as valid information is presented. In the case of Reese's post, the data presented was what the expert herself said was inconclusive. Nothing I offered was erroneous or misrepresented. Outdated or incomplete, maybe. It was a reflection of my experience and study. It was not a result of a doctoral disertation. Lastly, it is not only the surface, but the subsurface construction that is vital to the issue.
I admitted to you early in this thread, that school is still out. I was discussing this issue with my wife this morning. She owned and operated a landscape company for over 25 years and is a certified VA Nurseryman and both of us agree that the quality of the materials and the construction is the key to the performance results when unnatural substances are used in place of natural materials. You may remember when crumb rubber was marketed as a safe playground material. That was over 30 years ago. They found out it wasn't so safe and they also found out that particles embedded in the children's clothing thus causing horrible cleaning and clothing expenses. Some children had choking and respiratory episodes. It was a mess. Later, the industry corrected the problems by applying a flexible polymer coating to the crumb rubber which eliminated the unthriftiness and respiratory problems. I don't have a clue what they did about the choking, but I remember when my girls were toddlers they'd put anything in their mouths that was within arms reach, so I guess parental attention is the key there.
Please, open this thread up for debate to all. If I suggested otherwise, I was out of line, but I only harshly challenged one post. I am not adverse to dirt as a surface. I think it is extremely important and I am keen on the idea that we find safe surfaces for the horses and jockeys to run over. But, please don't think that I will roll over when I'm slammed with phrases like "erroneous facts" or when biased reference is made to facts or information that are not honestly presented to the readers of this thread.
All that being said, JimbleBrimble makes an important point concerning the BH article at issue. I suspect that the JC revised the original data because when you consider the limited number of synthetic tracks to the 180 (I think) dirt tracks in the US, the statistical analysis, in my mind, becomes quite complicated. I am not sure that JimbleBrimble is totally correct, but I think it is a valid observation.
"The racing surface, used at Keeneland Race Course and several other tracks around the country, is comprised of silica sand, fibers and recycled materials and is designed to provide a soft cushion for the horse. It was installed at Keeneland in October 2006 with mixed results.
"I don't want to run on anything made from my attic," said Zito, who has won the Kentucky Derby twice and will saddle Cool Coal Man and Anak Nakal in Saturday's Run for the Roses, which will be on a dirt track. "I don't want no synthetic stuff."
These are strong words coming from Zito, who was the leading trainer at Keeneland four times, all before the Polytrack was installed.
At the just-concluded Keeneland meet in Lexington, Ky., Zito started only two horses, both in the Blue Grass Stakes, which produced the wacky 1-2 of Monba over Cowboy Cal - both longshot stablemates. The expected favorites - Pyro, Big Truck, Visionaire and Zito's Cool Coal Man - were never in the hunt despite posting strong efforts on the dirt in their prior starts.
"Basically synthetic turf is the best way to call it," Zito said. "Horses that run well over that Polytrack either have to have some turf pedigree or happen to like the grass."
Zito did say that synthetic tracks aren't a bad idea for training when there is inclement weather, but would rather race over dirt tracks.
"I've been in this game since I was 15," said the 60-year-old Zito. "God made dirt and God made grass. I'm very upset about this business right now."
Although Polytrack is still relatively new, Zito doesn't see it being any safer then a well-maintained dirt track.
"There may be less catastrophic injuries, but there are many more tendon and soft-tissue injuries," Zito said.
AscotStud wrote:"The racing surface, used at Keeneland Race Course and several other tracks around the country, is comprised of silica sand, fibers and recycled materials and is designed to provide a soft cushion for the horse. It was installed at Keeneland in October 2006 with mixed results.
"I don't want to run on anything made from my attic," said Zito, who has won the Kentucky Derby twice and will saddle Cool Coal Man and Anak Nakal in Saturday's Run for the Roses, which will be on a dirt track. "I don't want no synthetic stuff."
These are strong words coming from Zito, who was the leading trainer at Keeneland four times, all before the Polytrack was installed.
At the just-concluded Keeneland meet in Lexington, Ky., Zito started only two horses, both in the Blue Grass Stakes, which produced the wacky 1-2 of Monba over Cowboy Cal - both longshot stablemates. The expected favorites - Pyro, Big Truck, Visionaire and Zito's Cool Coal Man - were never in the hunt despite posting strong efforts on the dirt in their prior starts.
"Basically synthetic turf is the best way to call it," Zito said. "Horses that run well over that Polytrack either have to have some turf pedigree or happen to like the grass."
Zito did say that synthetic tracks aren't a bad idea for training when there is inclement weather, but would rather race over dirt tracks.
"I've been in this game since I was 15," said the 60-year-old Zito. "God made dirt and God made grass. I'm very upset about this business right now."
Although Polytrack is still relatively new, Zito doesn't see it being any safer then a well-maintained dirt track.
"There may be less catastrophic injuries, but there are many more tendon and soft-tissue injuries," Zito said.
blahblahblahblahblahblah. Why don't you just add a quote from Baffert and Headley in there too, to make your point any less worth while. You got everyone who likes Poly now by a powerful quote from someone who trains on it 2 months out of the year.
For all who can READ the link to the entire article is below . . . "I don't want to run on anything made from my attic," said Zito . . .
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... is_sh.html[url][/url]
Forgive me, but who is Nick Zito? I am always interested in knowing about people who know exactly what they have in their attics. I guess from this article we can conclude that Nick Zito doesn't have any dirt in his attic. 
Forgive me, but who is Tiffany? Does she like sythetic surfaces or dirt or expensive jewelry?All very interesting, while inconclusive, but I just want to know what happened to Tiffany?
