Peppers Pride

[Sam]

So you dont want to give her the chance to be a nice broodmare? Just breed her to $500 studs and you will never know what kind of broodmare she can be. Just plain stupid.

What is 'plain stupid' is the above comment from you, AGC, as usual.

Please show me where I or anyone else have suggested that she should be bred to a $500 stallion. *MY* first (and only) choice is a very nice $5,000... or maybe you missed a zero on his stud fee?

Engage in the actual conversation instead of always trying to start a pissing match.

Why not try and pass on her racing ability by breeding to some nice studs? How else are you going to find out?

So you feel you can't breed to a "nice stud" and get a good runner for less than $20k?

There are more than a few "nice" stallions in the $5-10k range and that's where she belongs. This mare would not be mentioned in the same breath as a $20,000 stallion if she'd not won 16 in a row and you know it.

This is why I said people get stupid when they see a mare like this. Her family is SHIT. Piles of it. If she were one of her siblings, NO ONE here would be advocating her to be bred to Valid Expectations (whom she is likely to see). There's a fine line between dream and delusion and there's a hell of a lot of delusional people in the breeding industry when it comes to mares like this. Why is she any different than Hallowed Dreams?

Send her to a proven stallion in a price range that is appropriate to her pathetic pedigree but stellar race record. PROVE she can get a runner (or two) first, then breed up.

You all know damn well if she were 6 for 16, this discussion wouldn't even be taking place. She'd be a nice little $2,500 mare and that'd be the end of it. She is NOT a $20k mare and you won't get a $100k sales foal from her just from her record unless that foal is a HELL of a looker/mover.

[ageecee]

Hey sammie my post was not directed to you at all. You would be the last person my post was directed to.

Now lets look at her race record and her races.



She is NOT a 20K mare. She can compete nicely in the 30-40K range at some top tracks. Put her in the Keeneland November Breeding Sale and i guarantee she brings around 200K not in foal. Maybe more than that.

[Sam]

Hey sammie

My name is Sam. If that is too difficult for you to comprehend, you may address me as "Miss" or "Ma'am" or don't address me at all. "Sammie" or any variant thereof is for FRIENDS of which you are not nor will be. I know damn well you've been warned by the moderator about that in the past, and you know Rogue hates when her warnings are ignored. Stop baiting me looking for a fight. Or did you forget what happened the last time?

She is NOT a 20K mare

I did not say she was only worth $20k herself. I said she is not currently worth a $20k STUD FEE.

She can compete nicely in the 30-40K range at some top tracks.

Allowance or claiming?

Until she actually does so, you cannot say that for certain.

Put her in the Keeneland November Breeding Sale and i guarantee she brings around 200K not in foal. Maybe more than that.

She probably would. IMO, anyone who would spend that before she proves she can outbreed her pedigree/family is a fool.

Again, this discussion would not even be happening if she were 6 for 16. Stop getting lost in a fantasy. This is why people go broke in this industry.

If you were presented with this mare's pedigree -- no race record attached -- you would be an idiot to suggest breeding her to a $20k stallion, let alone a $30k one.

Either that, or you're a conman.

[oliverstoned]

lt all depends on what whether your breeding to race or sell. If to race I agree no need to go to high. If your breeding to sell you just may make a nice return on those first few foals with a 20K stud.

[Sam]

lt all depends on what whether your breeding to race or sell. If to race I agree no need to go to high. If your breeding to sell you just may make a nice return on those first few foals with a 20K stud.

Looking at the mare's record, I'd say this is a breed to race operation. Doesn't look like anything from this family has seen a ring in a couple generations. Yes, you may get a 'nice return' on foals from a $20k stud fee... if they are lookers and you dump them early. I don't see that being likely.

[choltz]

Looking at the mare's record, I'd say this is a breed to race operation. Doesn't look like anything from this family has seen a ring in a couple generations. Yes, you may get a 'nice return' on foals from a $20k stud fee... if they are lookers and you dump them early. I don't see that being likely.

Looking at the mare's race record and pedigree, any athletic (admittedly subjective) yearling would sell very well (5X+ stud fee range). What do you think is working on the page? Perhaps a little thing called Fappiano with a daughter of Best in Show...you can't intelligently argue that point as you said yourself that the female side was S%$t (or was that SHIT, a noun widely usedy by fools as an adjective?)

[ageecee]

Thank you choltz. You breed this mare to a 20k stud fee and you will get 100K for her even if shes crooked.This mare is probably going to rattle off a million in earnings winning from 5 1/2 furlongs to a mile. Why would you breed to a 5K stud fee? Your not giving the mare a chance to be a broodmare by breeding to a 5k stud fee.


If i had a mare that won a million on the track i would definetely start at the 20K stud fee range. With her race record you will get a 100K almost from every foal.

Langfur 25K stud fee? you dont think a foal by this sire would get 100K?

Smoke Glacken-25K
Grand Slam-35K
Stormy Atlantic-45K

Come on you are fooling yourself if you dont think her foals wont bring 100K breeding to some 25K stud fees or a little higher.

[Sam]

Looking at the mare's race record and pedigree, any athletic (admittedly subjective) yearling would sell very well (5X+ stud fee range).

There is no way you can say her PEDIGREE would net you 5x the stud fee of a $20k stallion. That vaunted Fappiano over Best In Show sire of hers is a $6k stallion. Her female family is littered with bottom feeders. She's running above her pedigree and is being extremely well managed. There's no reason to believe she would outbreed her pedigree.

I'll say it again -- if you were presented this mare's pedigree with no race record attached -- NO ONE in their right mind would suggest a $20k stallion.

I tell you what, Choltz. If you (and AGC) believe she's worth a $20k stud fee, tell us who you'd send her to.

(or was that SHIT, a noun widely usedy by fools as an adjective?)

Is that really the best you can do, choltz? The false belief that you are better than someone else based on the weight of words?

If you're inclined to join the discussion, join the discussion. When you resort to attacking a person simply for their word choice, you are the one who ends up looking like an elitist snob. It's as asinine as my pointing out that you made a typo. If I'm a 'fool' because I chose to use a word like shit as an adjective, you are equally the fool for your inability to correct your spelling errors.

Argue against the opinion, don't attack the person for something as stupid as how they chose to word that opinion. It's petty and nothing more than a pathetic strawman used to distract people from the original subject.

[Sam]

You breed this mare to a 20k stud fee and you will get 100K for her even if shes crooked.

This is why people go broke.

Why would you breed to a 5K stud fee?

Because that ($5k-$10k stud fee range) is where her pedigree and race record suggest she should be bred.

Your not giving the mare a chance to be a broodmare by breeding to a 5k stud fee.

Again, are you saying you don't believe you can get a good runner from a stallion standing for less than $20k, AGC?

She stands a better chance at being a quality broodmare if you breed her sensibly. Sending her to a $20k stallion because you think you might get a $100k sales foal is NOT sensible. This is not a sales family. Her race record is not enough to make up for the fact that her female family is littered with bottom feeders. She's a breed to race mare ONLY and she's only that because of her race record. Without her record, she's barely breedable. If she were 6 for 16, neither of you would be advocating her being sent to a $20k stallion and you are lying if you say you would.

Langfur 25K stud fee? you dont think a foal by this sire would get 100K?

Once again your lack of reading comprehension comes into play, AGC. I DID NOT SAY YOU WOULD NEVER GET A 100K FOAL FROM THIS MARE IF BRED TO A $20K STALLION. I even said you probably could if the foal were enough of a looker/mover. Gamble at the track, not with the mares. People would lose less money if they stopped thinking every thing they bred will sell for more than they often do.

This is why I say people don't want pedigree consultants. They want someone to rubber stamp their idiot decisions so they have someone to blame when it fails.

BTW... Langfuhr's average yearling price is $39,610. His 2yo average is $61,567. Smoke Glacken -- $54,049/yearling average. $85,605/2yo.

I'm not even going to do Grand Slam or Stormy Atlantic because suggesting she be bred to them is as stupid as suggesting they breed Better Than Honor to... well... Smoke Glacken.

Come on you are fooling yourself if you dont think her foals wont bring 100K breeding to some 25K stud fees or a little higher.

See above sentence re: your reading comprehension skills.

If she were a 6 for 16 mare, what stud fee do you think that pedigree of hers would warrant?

Say she was bred to Langfuhr. I would assume that means you would put the foal into the Keeneland yearling dump? What book do you think she'd land in? Her race record isn't enough to get her in the first two and her pedigree would push her back to the last and you know it.

[ageecee]

If she was 6 for 16 i wouldnt breed her..


But thats not the case here. She has 800K earned and 16 races won and will top a million in earnings. Support here with a decent stud not a dud. You owe that to the mare. Its common sense.



Who cares what book shes in. Ive seen thousands of foals not in the first 2 books go for way over 100K. Another goofball comment..

[Roguelet]

Once again, a thread is locked because some people refuse to have a conversation without making digs and snyde comments toward the PEOPLE posting. This is EXACTLY the type of behavior that has led me to a more heavy-handed moderating style, and exactly the type of crap that nobody else here wants to read. It starts out small but then nobody ever wants to let it drop and it escalates and ruins threads. Therefore, those who continue to post little snyde remarks toward or about other posters, over and over again, will find their accounts deactivated.