Okay.. Casino Drive or Big Brown, whose side are you on?

[larrygene]

Bada Bing!!!!!!

[LadySundari]

As much as I'd love to see a TC winner...I'm with Casino Drive. If Big Brown had a different jockey I'd be yelling for him all the way....

[George William Smith]

1. It is true that one cannot determine the strength of a foal crop until years afer that crop is finished racing. To declare this year's crop of 3yo's as being weak is not possible. YET
2. The sole exception to this fact is that if there are multiple [more than two] track records set by different horses on different courses. For example, Secretariat strung together consecutive 12's to win the Belmont. When Sham and Stop The Music turned out to be really good race horses and decent sires, the talk of a weak crop died.
3. Casino's Drive win in the Peter Pan was impressive and the time slightly better than average at 1:47.87, but was facing foes who have yet to show they are the good ones in that generation. A.P. Indy won ridden out in 1:47.40 as his prep for the Belmont. The Track Record is held by a 3yo named Secretariat in 1:45.40.

[George William Smith]

Yikes:
Finally had time to look at Casino Drive's Peter Pan and noted that he had a pace maker in their and an entrymate so the performance was not as good as portrayed. Could it be the drive-by media trying to make him 10 lengths better than he is YET.

[TJ]

TJ, do you know who started Big Brown? He is so impressive in that he does exactly what he's asked to do. How many horses could go out and breeze a quarter on the big day, without his human connections being scared to death he'd run off, or go too far.

Hi Tiz,
It was Eddie Woods in Ocala, Florida........if you need contact info PM me:>) TJ

[bdw0617]

Yikes:
Finally had time to look at Casino Drive's Peter Pan and noted that he had a pace maker in their and an entrymate so the performance was not as good as portrayed. Could it be the drive-by media trying to make him 10 lengths better than he is YET.

dude you picked the green monkey to "win easily" at hollywood park.

[bdw0617]

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/may/21/ ... cretariat/

Secretariat won all three Triple Crown races in record time, although a controversial timing dispute added a full second to his time and robbed him of his Preakness record. And to this day, 35 years later, his Derby and Belmont records still stand.

In covering the Derby's 1 1/4 miles in 1:59 2/5, Secretariat ran each quarter-mile at a faster pace — 25 1/5, 24, 23 4/5, 23 2/5 and 23 seconds — and was still accelerating on the final leg.

Though not officially recognized, Sham, who finished 2 1/2 lengths behind Secretariat, actually ran the second-fastest Derby ever (1:59 4/5).

Secretariat raced against strong competition. In addition to Sham, winner of the Santa Anita Derby and runner-up in the Wood Memorial, he beat three-time "Horse of the Year" Forego in the Derby as well as 1972 Derby and Belmont winner Riva Ridge in the first Marlboro Cup.

Big Brown?

By most accounts — and all the oddsmakers — he has beaten nothing but nags. That's not his fault, of course, but it raises questions.

Great horse? Or great hype?

Either way, he's no "Big Red."

Not even close.

[WARHORSE28]

Favorite quote from the ESPN undercard show last Saturday... Shortly before switching over to network coverage, someone asked Jerry Bailey who or what would finish behind BB in the Preakness. His reply--"Scorched Earth."

[WARHORSE28]

Bdw: Couldn't agree more. As much as I like what I see in BB, I'm still wondering if I will live long enuf to ever see anything like Big Red again. 35 years later, I'm still in awe of what I saw. (BB will have to do a whole lot more to convince me.)

Was reading a blog recently after the Derby and someone wrote in and asked if Secretariat was better than Affirmed... must've been someone born after 1973...

[DDT]

bdw0617

Of all people on this forum to call out a failed selection you take the cake, should I mention that "Etched is the best 3 year old in the world" or how about taking the odds on Tale of Ekati in the Derby because no Grade 1 winner should go off at those odds, and now your latest, Casino Drive is the 2nd best horse in the world.

Well, I for one am tired of your self-prolcaimed prowess as a handicapper so I offer you this wager. If Casino Drive beats Big Brown to the finish line in the Belmont I will leave the forum forever, if, however, Big Brown beats Casino Drive to the finish line in the Belmont you will be gone forever. Is your opinion strong enough to back up your mouth?

DDT

[TJ]

No 3yo is worthy of being called a 'great' racehorse until he beats older horses in the fall. This is my beef with BB, not the horse but the people who are hanging the title 'great racehorse' on him before he has had to run a single decent race to beat a really good racehorse.

Another thing about BB is that he is being handled exactly how you would handle a horse if you are running a scam. Create a buzz and get the horse sold before anyone figures out how your bending the rules: if he is retired before anyone figures it out all the better because you can do it again. Is IEAH running a scam with BB? We'll never know if he doesn't run on into the fall and then as a 4yo.

As for Casino Drive, he's only run 2 races, it's still wait and see what he can do.

Hi Dave,
I wouldn't call it a scam or hype, he is being handle by investment brokers that are in it purely to turn the big bucks ASAP. The hype is real and was created when he was a 2YO and dropped jaws after his maiden win at Saratoga. When he was sold and still a 2YO, Dutrow was training him with Diamond Stripes (a 3YO and graded winner) who won in Dubai on Florida Derby day. Big Brown would shut him down like breaking sticks. Then he won an allowance race off only 2 works (because he missed time due to developing a second 1/4 crack in Florida), then the Florida Derby, then the Kentucky Derby and now the Preakness. That's one hard scam/hype to repeat....especially if the scam/hype includes him winning the Triple Crown. You are probably correct in believing he won't race again after the Belmont, why would he? His breeding rights were sold for near 70 million, IEAH will be very involved with running Brown's stud career which will open another new avenue for their racing investment funds. This operation is better than a Blue Chip Stock so why would they risk running him again after the Belmont? When Secretariat was a two year old they knew then he was a better horse than Riva Ridge. Anyone that saw Secretariat or Seattle Slew run at two or three knew they were champions. Just like the people closest to Big Brown know he is a champion. If they stick to their plan and retire him after the Belmont you will see his greatness in that race. He will be set down from start to finish and the same chills that ran down our spine when we saw Secretariat win his Belmont will be brought to life again when Brown destroys this field. TJ

[bdw0617]

Bdw: Couldn't agree more. As much as I like what I see in BB, I'm still wondering if I will live long enuf to ever see anything like Big Red again. 35 years later, I'm still in awe of what I saw. (BB will have to do a whole lot more to convince me.)

Was reading a blog recently after the Derby and someone wrote in and asked if Secretariat was better than Affirmed... must've been someone born after 1973...

I won't disclose names, but there is a certian someone on this forum who thinks seattle slew is better than him

[bdw0617]

No 3yo is worthy of being called a 'great' racehorse until he beats older horses in the fall. This is my beef with BB, not the horse but the people who are hanging the title 'great racehorse' on him before he has had to run a single decent race to beat a really good racehorse.

Another thing about BB is that he is being handled exactly how you would handle a horse if you are running a scam. Create a buzz and get the horse sold before anyone figures out how your bending the rules: if he is retired before anyone figures it out all the better because you can do it again. Is IEAH running a scam with BB? We'll never know if he doesn't run on into the fall and then as a 4yo.

As for Casino Drive, he's only run 2 races, it's still wait and see what he can do.

Hi Dave,
I wouldn't call it a scam or hype, he is being handle by investment brokers that are in it purely to turn the big bucks ASAP. The hype is real and was created when he was a 2YO and dropped jaws after his maiden win at Saratoga. When he was sold and still a 2YO, Dutrow was training him with Diamond Stripes (a 3YO and graded winner) who won in Dubai on Florida Derby day. Big Brown would shut him down like breaking sticks. Then he won an allowance race off only 2 works (because he missed time due to developing a second 1/4 crack in Florida), then the Florida Derby, then the Kentucky Derby and now the Preakness. That's one hard scam/hype to repeat....especially if the scam/hype includes him winning the Triple Crown. You are probably correct in believing he won't race again after the Belmont, why would he? His breeding rights were so


ld for near 70 million, IEAH will be very involved with running Brown's stud career which will open another new avenue for their racing investment funds. This operation is better than a Blue Chip Stock so why would they risk running him again after the Belmont? When Secretariat was a two year old they knew then he was a better horse than Riva Ridge. Anyone that saw Secretariat or Seattle Slew run at two or three knew they were champions. Just like the people closest to Big Brown know he is a champion. If they stick to their plan and retire him after the Belmont you will see his greatness in that race. He will be set down from start to finish and the same chills that ran down our spine when we saw Secretariat win his Belmont will be brought to life again when Brown destroys this field. TJ

what did it for me in his maiden was 2 things.

1. his final time could have won the grade 1 on the card later that day, and he did in on turf, the grade 1 was on dirt.

2. IT WAS A TWO TURN RACE!

unlike most babies there was no question about if he would stretch out. he started out stretching out (note to trainers)

[WARHORSE28]

I won't disclose names, but there is a certian someone on this forum who thinks seattle slew is better than him[/quote]

Maybe in the stud barn, but not on the racetrack.

[gotpaints]

I'm not really hyped up on Big Brown. He's a nice horse, I'll give him that but his Preakness field, I feel, was an allowance level field, of course he was going to pull away and be able to have a race long "workout". I am rooting for Casino Drive because I'd like to see 3 winners in a row be out of the same mare. However, I think there may be a sleeper in there but I'm not sure who yet. Most of the horses will be more rested than big brown who has run 2 long races in 2 weeks and will run the longest just 5 weeks after the first. They may have not been hard races but they were races and any race takes something out of a horse.