Big Brown to Three Chimneys

[bdw0617]

the thing that gets me about big brown is that he is damn near averaging 2 months in between starts.

[FOS]

hi hpkingjr...hi all

3C had great success with Slew. Not so great since his death. Perhaps they can catch lighting in a bottle again.

When discussing Seattle Slew...and his Three Chimneys connection, it should be noted (as far as I'm concerned) that Seattle Slew did NOT start his stud career at Three Chimneys. He was moved to 3C eight years after he was retired to stud at Spendthrift (bankruptcy?). For what it's worth...neither did Dynaformer START his stud career at Three Chimneys.

Slew's champion son Slew O'Gold did start his stud career at Three Chimneys, but was arguably (other than an occasional bright light) disappointing (in general).

As did Slew O'Gold...Wild Again and Rahy did too start their stud careers at 3C (22 and 18 years ago respectively), but a look at more recent additions (that too, BEGAN their careers at stud at 3C) might shed some light, supply some valuable insight/perspective, plus offer some food for thought re stallion choices the farm has committed to.

Included among stallions whose stud careers BEGAN at Three Chimneys are...Atticus...Albert the Great...Fly So Free...Miesque's Son...Joyeaux Danseur...Silver Charm...Point Given...War Chant...Sky Mesa and Smarty Jones. As I recall...French Deputy started at Three Chimneys also, but was shuffled off to Japan pretty darn quickly; oh well.

It's yet to be seen how Smarty acquits himself as a racehorse sire, and if Sky Mesa (first 2-yos last year/2007) is just having bad (very bad) beginner's luck and might break-out of his funk. That said...and SJ and SM aside (for now), it seems to me that (to a large degree) stallions who BEGAN their stud careers at Three Chimneys (subsequent to Rahy, nearly 2 decades ago) have NOT fared (All Things Considered) particularly well.

Although Three Chimneys is a special facility (at least to my way of thinking), the racehorse-sire success of stallions that started their stud careers there, arguably leaves a lot to be desired.

Regardless...here's hopin' that Big Brown fares well (at Three Chimneys)...or else it might be farewell.

Thoughts.

Respectfully

[bdw0617]

Included among stallions whose stud careers BEGAN at Three Chimneys are...Atticus...Albert the Great...Fly So Free...Miesque's Son...Joyeaux Danseur...Silver Charm...Point Given...War Chant...Sky Mesa and Smarty Jones. As I recall...French Deputy started at Three Chimneys also, but was shuffled off to Japan pretty darn quickly; oh well.

boy that's a chef de race list for ya right there

[Coaltown]

War Chant, Point Given and Rahy are all currently in the top 50 leading sires for 2008.

[bdw0617]

war chant and point given have not been what you would call a smashing success up until now, espically considering the books they got, in particular war chant.

[Coaltown]

It is a bit hard to call the two of them failures considering how young they still are and the fact that they still are getting results regardless of what expectations may have been coming in. Point Given was the sire of the Horse of the Year in Canada just last year!

[Danzig]

War Chant's first crop are now six year-olds. With an AEI of 1.64 and a CI of 2.80, I think it is fair to say he's a flop - especially when one considers how far he pulls down his mares. Additionally, since the beginning of the breeding season, TC has been willing to book mares for nearly half his advertised stud fee, so I think it is fair to say even they are waiving the white flag on this one.

[bdw0617]

It is a bit hard to call the two of them failures considering how young they still are and the fact that they still are getting results regardless of what expectations may have been coming in. Point Given was the sire of the Horse of the Year in Canada just last year!

never did you hear the word failure come out of my mouth. dont' put it there.


but they are stetches from what you would call success stories either.

[bdw0617]

War Chant's first crop are now six year-olds. With an AEI of 1.64 and a CI of 2.80, I think it is fair to say he's a flop - especially when one considers how far he pulls down his mares. Additionally, since the beginning of the breeding season, TC has been willing to book mares for nearly half his advertised stud fee, so I think it is fair to say even they are waiving the white flag on this one.

which is kind sad.. if there ever was a horse destined for greatness in the shed it was war chant. that said, while hollywood wildcat was a hell of a race mare, while not BAD by any stretch of the imagination, nothing really jumps out from her or her siblings as far as producers go, espically when you consider how royally they are bred with

[Coaltown]

Both War Chant and Point Given are completely useful stallions, bdw017 you may not have said failure but you certainly didn't acknowledge them as being useful. As far as Danzig is concerned some of my best friends work at Three Chimneys and I can assure that they did not sell one season to War Chant this year for less than advertised price. The only deals they were doing were multiple mare discounts and those weren't even at half price.

[Danzig]

Sorry Coaltown, but your friends must be out of the loop. I bought a season for a client at US$10,500. At an advertised fee of US$20,000, that represents a cost of 52.5% of his advertised stud fee.

[bdw0617]

Both War Chant and Point Given are completely useful stallions, bdw017 you may not have said failure but you certainly didn't acknowledge them as being useful. As far as Danzig is concerned some of my best friends work at Three Chimneys and I can assure that they did not sell one season to War Chant this year for less than advertised price. The only deals they were doing were multiple mare discounts and those weren't even at half price.

stop grasping for straws. I said they weren't exactly smashing success, which means exactly what it was supposed to mean. of course they are both Useful.. I think point given is more useful than war chant, but both are very useful. neither is budda or anything like that. just admit that you tried to say imply something that I wasn't trying to say.

SKY MESA is a flop. War chant is getting there, but he has enough runners to not be labled a flop yet. I think point given is somewhat underrated actually.

[jagger]

I don't know what policies or philosophies other farms use for proposed matings but I do know Three Chimneys. It used to be and maybe still is at other farms that not just any mare could "get to a particular stallion". Either the mare was inferior or the proposed mating made no sense from a pedigree standpoint. At TC, if you have a mare and the money, you can "get to" any of their stallions.

[Coaltown]

Danzig, there's this thing called an "agent" that gets shareholder seasons and sells them for less than the farm can sell them for. Ask anyone. TCF is one of the few farms that refuses to discount their stallions at a whim. At least when you call there you know the person after you didn't get a better deal than you did.....UNLESS you go through an agent who has a shareholder season.

As for War Chant and Point Given, no, they're not in the same league as Distorted Humor or A.P. Indy, but they're still stallions people want to breed to in Kentucky. War Chant's AEI is 1.36....what's average? 1.00. So he's well above average. Forget the CI. Giant's Causeway's AEI is far below his CI and he's still considered a success. War Chant also has 5% stakes winners to foals. That's pretty darn good for a stallion now days. Point Given's AEI is 2.05. Is there something wrong with that?

[Danzig]

Coaltown, settle down. I was the person who purchased the season from TC for a client.