I just bought a yearling that happens to have a parrot mouth. It's not mild, it's quite severe. It's his only defect, he has really good overall conformation besides that, very athletic. If anyone can help - - what problems should I expect because of his parrot mouth, will need special teeth care? What about really good horses with parrot mouth, are there any (past of present)? Is this a genetic trait? I really like this horse but don't know the odds to be a good racehorse diminishes because of this fault.
Thanks a lot to anyone that can help with any information about the condition.
Parrot Mouth
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kimberley mine
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Please tell me you've named him Pollywantsacracker.
OK, on a more serious note, I've been around a few parrot mouths and really haven't had much trouble. You say "severe" so the teeth will wear differently and you'll have to keep on top of that, but I bet you've already figured that out. I've heard of the occasional problem with them grazing; not so much with them in training.
As for past and present examples. . . Bayakoa was quite the racehorse and quite the parrot mouth. And currently there's a stakes winning Forestry mare named Selvatica who is very parrot mouthed.
I'd be surprised if this keeps him from being a good racehorse. Other things might, but I don't think this will. Just tell him not to smile for his winner's circle pictures.
OK, on a more serious note, I've been around a few parrot mouths and really haven't had much trouble. You say "severe" so the teeth will wear differently and you'll have to keep on top of that, but I bet you've already figured that out. I've heard of the occasional problem with them grazing; not so much with them in training.
As for past and present examples. . . Bayakoa was quite the racehorse and quite the parrot mouth. And currently there's a stakes winning Forestry mare named Selvatica who is very parrot mouthed.
I'd be surprised if this keeps him from being a good racehorse. Other things might, but I don't think this will. Just tell him not to smile for his winner's circle pictures.
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serenarider
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Witha parrot mouth you need to make sure there is hay for the colt. IN other words if he is out to pasture he will need hay to supplement the grass. He will have a harder time pulling the grass up. Other then that you just need to have his teeth floated more then if he did not have a parrot mouth.
Training does not seem to be a problem with any that I have had. Some good horses that I can think of and know that have a parrot mouth are straight man and Texas glitter.
Training does not seem to be a problem with any that I have had. Some good horses that I can think of and know that have a parrot mouth are straight man and Texas glitter.
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Heather T.
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Parrot mouth is very common in Northern Dancer line horses - seems to pop up unpredictably (a foal can have parrot mouth when neither of its parents do). I think Dancing Brave and some of the other good Northern Dancer-line horses had parrot mouths.
My late mare, Life in Fiction, had a severe parrot mouth, but it never bothered her (she could eat us out of house and home!). She never raced (her knees, not the mouth), but became a stakes producer and none of her foals had parrot mouths. Fiction had 2 crosses of Northern Dancer and 4 crosses of Nearctic.
My late mare, Life in Fiction, had a severe parrot mouth, but it never bothered her (she could eat us out of house and home!). She never raced (her knees, not the mouth), but became a stakes producer and none of her foals had parrot mouths. Fiction had 2 crosses of Northern Dancer and 4 crosses of Nearctic.
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foothillsequine
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I have a couple of mares that have parrot mouths. Neither have any problems grazing. The only thing is that you do have to have their teeth floated regularly.
For those of you who think that this is genetic, please provide evidence to support your assertion. I have seen no studies that support this assertion. My limited experience also does not support this conclusion. Neither of the parents of my older mare had a parrot mouth but she did, she has had four foals and none of them have a parrot mouth. The younger mare likewise is the only one of ten foals out of a damn who did not have a parrot mouth and the sire did not have a reputation for throughing a parrot mouth. She was bred for the first time this year.
In the OP's case I wouldn't worry about whether it is genetic or not unless you are going to try to turn the yearling into a stallion and if you don't have the experience to have already developed an opinion on the subject you probably shouldn't be thinking about trying to develop a stallion. Developing stallions is a very expensive proposition even when you know what you are doing.
For those of you who think that this is genetic, please provide evidence to support your assertion. I have seen no studies that support this assertion. My limited experience also does not support this conclusion. Neither of the parents of my older mare had a parrot mouth but she did, she has had four foals and none of them have a parrot mouth. The younger mare likewise is the only one of ten foals out of a damn who did not have a parrot mouth and the sire did not have a reputation for throughing a parrot mouth. She was bred for the first time this year.
In the OP's case I wouldn't worry about whether it is genetic or not unless you are going to try to turn the yearling into a stallion and if you don't have the experience to have already developed an opinion on the subject you probably shouldn't be thinking about trying to develop a stallion. Developing stallions is a very expensive proposition even when you know what you are doing.
[quote="Heather T."]Parrot mouth is very common in Northern Dancer line horses - seems to pop up unpredictably (a foal can have parrot mouth when neither of its parents do). I think Dancing Brave and some of the other good Northern Dancer-line horses had parrot mouths.
Interesting about the Northern Dancer-line, I just had a Century City filly who is parrot mouthed. From the the dams side, I know of no history of parrot month and sire is not either.
As for runners being parrot mouthed I would not be concerned, for eventhough my filly is not yet two monthes old I'm sure she is a stakes horse.
Interesting about the Northern Dancer-line, I just had a Century City filly who is parrot mouthed. From the the dams side, I know of no history of parrot month and sire is not either.
As for runners being parrot mouthed I would not be concerned, for eventhough my filly is not yet two monthes old I'm sure she is a stakes horse.
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serenarider
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surprisewind
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For what it's worth... I've got an older OT gelding in my pasture who is moderately parrot mouthed. He's a son of Zevi. His other half is technically quarter horse (his dam was something like 90% TB)
He is a "hard keeper" but it's not actually due to the parrot mouth. In fact, he looks better when he's on pasture. He also won frequently, so no problems in that area. Granted, it wasn't exactly stakes company...but that wasn't completely his fault and he did pay for feed for a lot of horses with normal dentition
He does require a little more dental maintenence than the others.
He is a "hard keeper" but it's not actually due to the parrot mouth. In fact, he looks better when he's on pasture. He also won frequently, so no problems in that area. Granted, it wasn't exactly stakes company...but that wasn't completely his fault and he did pay for feed for a lot of horses with normal dentition
He does require a little more dental maintenence than the others.
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JCBloodstock
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After being in the business for 30 years and foaling over 800 foals in all those years I actually believe parrot-mouth is more or less considered a conformation fault more than being a genetic transferred fault.
I have seen lots of foals over the years born with whats called premature syndrome,they've gone full term but they are born with weaknesses in the skeletal system.I have seen foals that have been weak in the structure of their jaws and when their teeth do start coming in become parrot-mouthed just from nursing.
Many automatically assume that crooked legs and all conformation faults are all about genetics when actually a lot of problems are not related to genetics at all but in the way that foal was carried by the mare,both position wise and nutritionally as well as environment in the care of the mare.
I will say it seems in some of the other breeds---Quarter Horses for example I have seen parrot-mouth stallions pass on the trait but I have yet to ever see the trait passed in thoroughbreds.
About 15 years ago I had a client send me a gelding that had to have the worst parrot mouth I've ever seen.He'd bought this colt at 3 and said he was still nursing on the mare occasionally (when she layed down no less).They gelded him as a short yearling but never weaned him.This horse was so bad that it took him about 3 hours to eat a can of grain and he had a tough time eatin' grass but he could devour the hay.The grain situation I took care of quickly by hot mashing him.Needless to say he broke out well,took to training and went thru his conditions the next year and made a little over $50,000 in state bred races.I use this as an example - was it genetics - or was it environment ?
Genetics is always an easy escape and if you see the same trait showing up repeatedly then most likely genetics is to blame but environment has a lot to do with conformation faults also.In show horses parrott-mouth is going to kill you.In racehorses it has more to do with heart,pedigree and horsemanship.
Sincerely-Jeff
I have seen lots of foals over the years born with whats called premature syndrome,they've gone full term but they are born with weaknesses in the skeletal system.I have seen foals that have been weak in the structure of their jaws and when their teeth do start coming in become parrot-mouthed just from nursing.
Many automatically assume that crooked legs and all conformation faults are all about genetics when actually a lot of problems are not related to genetics at all but in the way that foal was carried by the mare,both position wise and nutritionally as well as environment in the care of the mare.
I will say it seems in some of the other breeds---Quarter Horses for example I have seen parrot-mouth stallions pass on the trait but I have yet to ever see the trait passed in thoroughbreds.
About 15 years ago I had a client send me a gelding that had to have the worst parrot mouth I've ever seen.He'd bought this colt at 3 and said he was still nursing on the mare occasionally (when she layed down no less).They gelded him as a short yearling but never weaned him.This horse was so bad that it took him about 3 hours to eat a can of grain and he had a tough time eatin' grass but he could devour the hay.The grain situation I took care of quickly by hot mashing him.Needless to say he broke out well,took to training and went thru his conditions the next year and made a little over $50,000 in state bred races.I use this as an example - was it genetics - or was it environment ?
Genetics is always an easy escape and if you see the same trait showing up repeatedly then most likely genetics is to blame but environment has a lot to do with conformation faults also.In show horses parrott-mouth is going to kill you.In racehorses it has more to do with heart,pedigree and horsemanship.
Sincerely-Jeff
