geo, we are all tired of talking about Sam!!!!I came to this forum to talk TB horses!!! But, when there is someone who continually not only has a different opinion but over and over belittles others with vicious attacks they seem to get the attention. Sharing ideas is one thing but demeaning trash talk is no way in my opinion for someone to have a civil debate. I have defended Sam in the past but enough is enough!!! And there are others that cross the line of civility now and then. There are some of us that feel our moderator needs to lay down rules so everyone knows what is to be expected when addressing the forum. I hate censorship!!!! But with outright disreguard for the group as a whole, some rules must be laid out for the good of the membership and hidden posters.
Please lets get back to talking TB's.
Clearing The Air
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
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pfrsue
- Grade III Winner
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:42 pm
- Location: You can't get there from here.
I moderate an active forum--not horse related--with a much younger demographic than this one. The vast majority of our members are in their late teens to early thirties, and at a guess, I'd say we have more guys than gals posting regularly. It's attached to a movie reviewing website and so the focus of the forum mostly relates to movies--particularly cult movies–but also covers all other forms of modern media and we have a general discussion thread as well. In other words, we attract the geek, nerd, gamer elements. Don't ask which one I qualify as. I'd have to plead the Fifth.
In my five years there, I have never seen the kind of utter disregard for other peoples' feelings and the sometimes blatant vindictiveness that I've seen here. I've watched Democrats mixing it up with Republicans, I've seen veterans of Iraq (one in-country) debating with anti-war protesters. I've seen Atheists exchanging points of view with Christians. I repeat, I have NEVER seen the sort of casually flung hatred that I've seen here, usually (but not always) by a few select people.
(And before anyone asks, I did check beside my head. No gun. I don't have to be here, I know, but I do love Thoroughbreds and I'm keenly interested in the racing industry. I absorb more than I post, but I like being here and I've learned a lot.)
Yes, there's definitely a difference in the level of moderation between the two forums. In the movie one, we have an administrator who decided early on that diverse opinions are welcome and that no person should ever be afraid to post their thoughts for fear of being flamed.
We also put in place a sort of PG-15 rating for language. "Light swears" are okay (the d-word, the b-word), but the f-bomb and similar are unacceptable. For someone who really has to vent their spleen, we don't mind if they disguise a heavy swear, as long as its in a way that a really young kid couldn't figure out. S**t is okay. Sh1t is not, if you see what I mean. First offenses get a warning and are referred back to the "Forum Rules" thread for a remedial read. Second might get a time out, depending on the nature of the offense. Third and they're done.
Oh, and I have NO idea who used "coonass" on this forum, but that would have merited an instant and permanent ban without any warning whatsoever. There's not playing nice, there's poor language skills and then there's totally and inexcusably racist. Again, I have no idea which persons or people used that, and if they're here they won't like me much right now, but geeeeeez, please stay away from my other home on the internet.
The other main reason we would have for an insta-ban would be a poster threatening a member or mod, either on the forum or by IM.
I don't want to say that the site I mod for is a "heavily moderated" forum, but it definitely has more conduct rules in place than this one. Honestly, our mods don't usually have much to do, because the rules are clearly posted and our regulars have great attitudes because the rules benefit everyone and levels the playing field. However, every staff writer for the main part of the site has mod status, which means there are nine of us, compared to Rogue's army of one. In the rare case that a troll pops up or someone starts to go postal, there's usually a mod around to cool things off. (Mods can edit posts and lock threads, but the admin is the only one who can set a ban.) We don't run it like a regime and we definitely take our member's input into account. Every mod and the administrator post actively, not to enforce rules, but because we're part of the community and we have thoughts and opinions too.
Anyway, again the main rule that everything else hinges on is as simple as this: No person should ever be afraid to post their thoughts for fear of being flamed.
I'm not suggesting that this forum emulate the other one, but I think that's a pretty good foundation to build on.
Oh, and for whoever is keeping score, I inadvertently chose option number two on the poll thread, because of the somewhat vague wording. If it isn't too late, please swap me out on the checklist to #3.
In my five years there, I have never seen the kind of utter disregard for other peoples' feelings and the sometimes blatant vindictiveness that I've seen here. I've watched Democrats mixing it up with Republicans, I've seen veterans of Iraq (one in-country) debating with anti-war protesters. I've seen Atheists exchanging points of view with Christians. I repeat, I have NEVER seen the sort of casually flung hatred that I've seen here, usually (but not always) by a few select people.
(And before anyone asks, I did check beside my head. No gun. I don't have to be here, I know, but I do love Thoroughbreds and I'm keenly interested in the racing industry. I absorb more than I post, but I like being here and I've learned a lot.)
Yes, there's definitely a difference in the level of moderation between the two forums. In the movie one, we have an administrator who decided early on that diverse opinions are welcome and that no person should ever be afraid to post their thoughts for fear of being flamed.
We also put in place a sort of PG-15 rating for language. "Light swears" are okay (the d-word, the b-word), but the f-bomb and similar are unacceptable. For someone who really has to vent their spleen, we don't mind if they disguise a heavy swear, as long as its in a way that a really young kid couldn't figure out. S**t is okay. Sh1t is not, if you see what I mean. First offenses get a warning and are referred back to the "Forum Rules" thread for a remedial read. Second might get a time out, depending on the nature of the offense. Third and they're done.
Oh, and I have NO idea who used "coonass" on this forum, but that would have merited an instant and permanent ban without any warning whatsoever. There's not playing nice, there's poor language skills and then there's totally and inexcusably racist. Again, I have no idea which persons or people used that, and if they're here they won't like me much right now, but geeeeeez, please stay away from my other home on the internet.
The other main reason we would have for an insta-ban would be a poster threatening a member or mod, either on the forum or by IM.
I don't want to say that the site I mod for is a "heavily moderated" forum, but it definitely has more conduct rules in place than this one. Honestly, our mods don't usually have much to do, because the rules are clearly posted and our regulars have great attitudes because the rules benefit everyone and levels the playing field. However, every staff writer for the main part of the site has mod status, which means there are nine of us, compared to Rogue's army of one. In the rare case that a troll pops up or someone starts to go postal, there's usually a mod around to cool things off. (Mods can edit posts and lock threads, but the admin is the only one who can set a ban.) We don't run it like a regime and we definitely take our member's input into account. Every mod and the administrator post actively, not to enforce rules, but because we're part of the community and we have thoughts and opinions too.
Anyway, again the main rule that everything else hinges on is as simple as this: No person should ever be afraid to post their thoughts for fear of being flamed.
I'm not suggesting that this forum emulate the other one, but I think that's a pretty good foundation to build on.
Oh, and for whoever is keeping score, I inadvertently chose option number two on the poll thread, because of the somewhat vague wording. If it isn't too late, please swap me out on the checklist to #3.
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Tucumcari
- Chef de Race: Brilliant
- Posts: 3754
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:51 am
- Location: Here and there
Thanks Rogue for pointing those out and I do believe several of those are quotes from me. Including one wishing for Sam to be here at a time she was not. I felt that way a the time and I still have no personal issue regarding Sam. Though she may have one with me now, though I sincerely hope not! . I'm a big girl so I will stand by what I feel now and how I choose to live my life. I like to believe that people have the ability to change. To look in the mirror of who they are and say "you know this is something I see in myself and so many others and it's something I no longer want to be, or this is not how I want to behave or this is not how I want to be perceived by others." I am trying really hard to clean up my act including my attitude toward tolerance for the "less like me or people who think differently than I do." It's a process let me tell you and as I have tried to develop into some one I can like, I find myself being kinder and softer. Sure I have moments. I am after all only human, but I CAN curb my own behaviour because I really don't find it to be acceptable anymore.
And as I have made some personal changes I have to say that my feelings regarding the very distinctive and clear tone that comes out of Sam's keyboard (and mine sometimes too) are so over the top as to being blatantly aggressive and thoughtless sometimes in her posting, not thinking that what we type might really hurt someone. Not every one can just let things roll of of them. Some people really internalize this sort of post if it is pointedly aimed at them. We shouldn't be able to make someone feel badly about themselves over a computer screen. And frankly I don't feel the need to listen or read it either.
No I don't think the above posts are ok, and I take responsibility for my contribution. I apologise to those I have been harsh with or berated. Be patient, I am working to change and being a better person and trust me that doesn't happen overnite!
You're right Rogue also that people should have a right to defend themselves, and at the same time defending one's self can be said or typed without anger dripping from every word. Yesterday when Pokey and I were chatting about one subject from two very passionate angles and it was so hard to stay cool and not a jerk off. I could have been, but I think it's an example that two passionate individuals can discuss a very "heated" topic and remain civil. It just takes a whole lot more effort at first, but then you realize that you can be passionate and disagree while keeping a very civil tone. And oh boy was it freaking difficult, BUT I loved the challenge and i think it really allowed me also see the opposing side without getting my hackles up.
I don't think Sam should leave, though it's her choice she did take a time out. BUT I do think the tone of her's mine and many others be addressed. It's time for a change. IMO
I don't think slamming someone or picking on them just because they are not here or choose to not be a part is unacceptable always. And I'd be guilty of that likely with CA Michael last summer. Passion makes up stupid sometimes.
I have jumped on Brandon so many times. Often blindsided him even. BUT what you may or may not need to know is that with me he gets really pouty when I do and we will IM each other at the same time. He wants to learn about parts of this industry that so many of us take for granted as we have been involved for years. He is basically a gambler who is serious a lover of the spot. And I have found that if one takes some time and is "gentle" with him he becomes very free and asks really great questions and throw some things at you that is sort of silly, BUT again take some time to be patient and he grasps it without feeling like he is backed into a corner.
So I guess after my long winded turn on the soap box, I guess the long and the short of it is apparently that we are adults we still need someone to be accountable to and if it makes your job easier to pick three and tighten things down significantly in order to restore some peace here then so be it. I am game.
And as I have made some personal changes I have to say that my feelings regarding the very distinctive and clear tone that comes out of Sam's keyboard (and mine sometimes too) are so over the top as to being blatantly aggressive and thoughtless sometimes in her posting, not thinking that what we type might really hurt someone. Not every one can just let things roll of of them. Some people really internalize this sort of post if it is pointedly aimed at them. We shouldn't be able to make someone feel badly about themselves over a computer screen. And frankly I don't feel the need to listen or read it either.
No I don't think the above posts are ok, and I take responsibility for my contribution. I apologise to those I have been harsh with or berated. Be patient, I am working to change and being a better person and trust me that doesn't happen overnite!
You're right Rogue also that people should have a right to defend themselves, and at the same time defending one's self can be said or typed without anger dripping from every word. Yesterday when Pokey and I were chatting about one subject from two very passionate angles and it was so hard to stay cool and not a jerk off. I could have been, but I think it's an example that two passionate individuals can discuss a very "heated" topic and remain civil. It just takes a whole lot more effort at first, but then you realize that you can be passionate and disagree while keeping a very civil tone. And oh boy was it freaking difficult, BUT I loved the challenge and i think it really allowed me also see the opposing side without getting my hackles up.
I don't think Sam should leave, though it's her choice she did take a time out. BUT I do think the tone of her's mine and many others be addressed. It's time for a change. IMO
I don't think slamming someone or picking on them just because they are not here or choose to not be a part is unacceptable always. And I'd be guilty of that likely with CA Michael last summer. Passion makes up stupid sometimes.
I have jumped on Brandon so many times. Often blindsided him even. BUT what you may or may not need to know is that with me he gets really pouty when I do and we will IM each other at the same time. He wants to learn about parts of this industry that so many of us take for granted as we have been involved for years. He is basically a gambler who is serious a lover of the spot. And I have found that if one takes some time and is "gentle" with him he becomes very free and asks really great questions and throw some things at you that is sort of silly, BUT again take some time to be patient and he grasps it without feeling like he is backed into a corner.
So I guess after my long winded turn on the soap box, I guess the long and the short of it is apparently that we are adults we still need someone to be accountable to and if it makes your job easier to pick three and tighten things down significantly in order to restore some peace here then so be it. I am game.
Proverbs 31:8
"...stand up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all those who are destitute.."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QawYXs2e ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIASWv9GYC8
"...stand up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all those who are destitute.."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QawYXs2e ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIASWv9GYC8
aard, the point I'm trying to make is this forum is made up of people from all over the world. Some people for whatever reason might think the word coonass is derogatory and someone else sees it as a colloquial name that denotes a cajun. I have many friends in cajun country that have no problem with me using the word. They use the word to describe themselves. So for someone to be ruled off this forum for the use of the word, coonass, would definitely show a fragile line between what is acceptable and what is not. To say the word is vulgar is a bit extreme. JMO
