The Triple Crowning Achievement

[madelyn]

I fervently hope Casino Drive wins. It would be just the most amazing hat trick for Better Than Honour. THAT would make history.

[Roguelet]

Well... Secretariat was around before I was involved in racing. Maybe I wouldn't have been excited about him either, who knows?

I'm not saying it's logical or that Big Brown isn't a really good horse, I'm just saying that the things the peak my own personal excitement level about horse racing simply haven't been there with Big Brown. As I said before I know that's not his fault...he's a horse for cryin out loud! But, that's the way I feel about it and I just can't help that.

[aardvark]

Horse racing is not a clean as it should be and anyone who is upset and wishes it was pure hopefully will get a better product in the years to come. To me all horse racing is suspect, but I am cionditioned/undertsand that things go on behind closed doors to gain competitive advantage. It happens all over the world, so it isn't an American problem.

Every once in a while a horse is good enough and rises to the top even through all this corruption and that is amazing. Go Big Brown. Some will say he got there by cheating, but I say he got there despite all the cheating that goes on.

Michael Jordan made his competitors look mediocre. I never once read anywhere when the Dream Team annihilated the world and won the basketball gold medal that it didnt mean anything. The Brazilian Soccer teams have in the past made the world look mediocre. Arizona State won women's college softball championship, but since it was a weak field the NCAA is going to place an asterisks in the record book. I made that up about the NCAA. Arizona State earned the championship and the accolades that go with it.

Here are some past racing articles that shows the cheatin side of racing. Just what I could find quickly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 617544.stm

Ecerpt from
Cheats Sometimes Prosper[i]

"As did Phar Lap, the legendary Australian race horse of the 1930s (surprising that, when you see the size of his embalmed heart). When the diaries of Phar Lap's trainer Harry Telford came up at auction earlier this year, it was revealed the horse had been fed arsenic, belladonna, caffeine, cocaine and strychnine. It was a lot of the first and a little of the last that did for him."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/ma ... .kenoliver

http://www.oddjack.com/2005/can-spottin ... -08-26.php

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/ ... id=3029130

[dray33]

I am about to get in the car for the haul down to Maryland. Quickly, I will say this. BB is symptomatic of we as humans have done to these horses. It was in our charge from the very beginning. It what creates forums like this one. To enhance the breed. To make it better. When they brought the original horses to England to breed, the sole purpose was to build a BETTER horse. Look now.

I talked to one of the greatest trainers, who told me a quick story. His dad was a trainer, who told him that 1, MAYBE 2 horses over the course of a couple years had breathing issues. MAYBE that many. Today, he told me over 50-60% of the stable has one or another breathing issue. The reason we are weakening the breed is obvious, we are breeding poor horses, horses that have conformation flaws masked, run in masked pain, or ran enhanced by one drug or another. Horses that start 5 times. Even the fragile ones get into the shed. Now, we are left with this.

I have a horse that is a bleeder. I know lasix helps, but I am worried about breeding her. I will seek out European pedigree because I need a horse that ran without lasix for any hope of not getting a bad bleeder. Should I care? I don't know really! I will have to do much more research. But even I, as a beginner knows that we are doing very little to make things BETTER. Starts per horse, Starters per race, stamina, all numerical evidence shows the same thing. A long, continual decline of the breed. We are in control of these animals, and i think we (including myself) can do better. And it all starts with, like almost every other country in the world, regulating drug use.

I wish no ill toward BB and his connections are doing nothing illegal by using Winstrol. That is the first sin. We are as guilty as they. But knowing the story, and piecing together what we can, I would just rather see a cleaner win. Especially for something like the Triple Crown. Just me. So I root for Casino Drive, it would make things "right" in my view of the world.

Regardless, may they all come home safely.

[Dave C]

I mean no disrespect larrygene, but your passion for BB is what makes me hope BB doesn't win. I've said it before on the forum: until a horse runs against the best older horses and wins, you can not call him great. It is all the people calling BB a 'great' horse that turns me off. He is running against boys in restricted races, when he runs against men in the fall and wins, I will accept that he is a good horse. Calling him great now is more passion than reason, more promotion than reality, and promotion from shady characters leaves me cold. JMHO

[spex4me]

arrrg how can one even begin to say Big Brown and Secretariat in the same breath? BB probably hasn't even accumulated enough mileage to pass the past great's stall circle walks.

BIG RED:
At 2:
Won Garden State S., Hopeful S., Futurity S., Laurel Futurity, Sanford S.
2nd Champagne S. (DQ'd from first).
At 3:
Won Kentucky Derby (NTR), Preakness S., Belmont S. (NWR), Man O' War S. (NCR), Canadian Int., Gotham S. (ETR), Bay Shore S., Arlington Inv., Marlboro Cup (NWR).
2nd Woodward S., Whitney S.
3rd Wood Memorial S.
Holds World Record of 2:24 for 1 1/2 mi on dirt, set winning the Belmont S. by 31 lengths.
21 starts

BIG BROWN:
At 2:
Won at Saratoga debut race.
At 3: Won Kentucky Derby (G1), Preakness S. (G1), Florida Derby (G1)
With Belmont and MAYBE BC that will total a whopping 6 starts.
6=Secretariats 2 year old year.

And I really have a hard time even considering Secretariat was doped with anything. My god with all the money being offered for train wreck stories someone would have rolled on that by now. On him or any of the others. Now if he is close to anything that some believe he is , then the time at the Belmont should reflect that.
I really don't even care about weak fields, in the end it is all about the clock.

[pfrsue]

Actually, I'm going to go against the majority and side with larrygene on this one.

If BB wins the Belmont, I'm not going to look at him as "the" tainted TC winner or as the poster pony of everything wrong with American racing today. I'm rooting for the horse, not his connections, and the horse has done everything asked of him and not looked back. Whether the rules need to be tweaked or not, he's run legally. Whether Dutrow is a braggart with a shady record, or Iavarone is next best thing to a crook, the horse runs, and the horse ran before they ever had a thing to do with him.

Sure, I'd like to see Casino Drive and his stablemates do well in their respective races. (I'm loving those power-walks.) Late Breaking Edit: I hope Casino Drive is okay to run.

I definitely want to see Big Brown match up against older horses and see what he can do. But whether he does or doesn't, he's going undefeated into the third leg of the Triple Crown, and if he wins it, my hat is off to him.

Just one person's opinion.

[larrygene]

Dave C, as we have on this forum been talking about what words mean to different people. Great to you obviously means something different than it does to me. It appears you equate greatness only to mean who and what a horse has beaten. You say BB has only beaten mediocre horses.That's your opinion. Well here is the other point of view. I see greatness in a horse that can win on different track surfaces, dirt, turf, fast, muddy. I see greatness in the demeaner and attitude of how a horse handles the travel and the enormous crowds. I see greatness in a horse that can accelerate the last 1/8 in spectacular time. I see greatness in a horse that runs 1 and 1/4 mile and gallops out to come back hardly taking a deep breath. I see greatness in a horse that has taken on all comers and left them crawling in his wake. I see greatness in a horse with a perfect record and doing it at several different tracks. I see greatness in a beautiful specimen of a racehorse. In my way of thinking when you add it all up, I believe I have every right to call BB "great"!! Whether he wins or loses tomorrow, I would love to have one just like him!!! JMO

Larrygene

[larrygene]

spex, you seem quite knowledgeable about Big Red and his racing career. My question is, Other than Sham, who I mentioned above, what horse or horses can you name off the top of your head that ran against Big Red in any of his TC races??? Honestly, I can only remember one other. My next question is, Were they so mediocre we forget their names or was Big Red that good that remembering the others don't matter?? Personally I'll take the later. Big Red was that good and that dominate!!! Now if Big Brown does the same thing to the field tomorrow, maybe not 31 lengths, but wins by several lengths, will we remember CD or any of the others??

Larrygene

[spex4me]

I am definitley not really knowledgeable about Secretariat. But being a horse lover from Va I have a form of osmosis of him.
Since he was running ,oh say about a year before I was even a thought, I can't tell you other than what has been regurgitated to me.

My point was that the race horses of yester year RAN and RAN lots. Of course I did not bear personal witness, but I have you tube to drool over them!!

And of course no one remembers who gets second (usually no one) in any sport or contest. What's the old adage , second is the first loser? (Forgive me EB)

[Tucumcari]

One more nail in the coffin of my interest... the new Casino Drive possible injury. sigh.

And for the record Lar, Secretariat set records on his TC march. Records that still stand today, some 35 years. Pretty impressive, doncha think?

[larrygene]

As always Tuc, you are correct my Luv!!!!

[majxmom]

Dray, think about Seattle Slew. People said he was overrated. He hadn't beat much. He was sired by what was then thought to be a lesser stallion who had died young. Although he had won by many lengths, he hadn't run very fast. His owners were hurting the game. His co-owners did something unethical (remember the Hills actually owned part of the horse but it wasn't declared). He wasn't expected to be much of a stallion.

But he just kept on being special. All through the Triple Crown. All through trainer changes to absurdly unqualified people. Even in defeat to Exceller, he defined himself. When he went to stud, he surprised everyone by being the sire of the generation. And when he got old, damned if those owners that everyone thought were awful didn't stand up and take care of that horse personally, moving to KY, talking him for walks every day, being in the stall with him when he died.

We are about to see something special happen on Saturday afternoon. And it might change racing forever. It may reverse this terrible decline we are on. He might overcome his pedigree and be a new and wonderful sire line. Who cares about the owners? Sure, I wish Mrs. Chenery II was going to be in the winner's circle, but I'll still be glad to see him there. This horse is special. That ought to be good enough for us horsemen to celebrate. It's going to be a wonderful day.

[Bunty Lawless]

Regarding the disgrace and disgust some express regarding Big Brown:

I've got an old photostat of a vet slip injecting SWAPS before a very big race, (which was illegal) where the 2nd place finisher's connections would have thrown a fit, if known. You betcha there have been many past racing heroes drugged to get to the wire in front.

It occurs to me that it had to do with his feet, just like with Big Brown.

[LadySundari]

I've been in horse racing for ten years, and I can remember being so excited about past horses, like Charismatic and Chris Antley, but Big Brown just doesn't do it for me. I agree with EVRERYTHING Roguelet said. Way to go, you hit EVERYTHING on the head.

Don’t get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than to see another TC winner, but just not BB. He's not the horse, well maybe he is just not with the right rider. I might be excited and rooting for him if Desormeaux wasn’t the jock. That's why I'm hoping and praying BB runs up the track and Casion Drive coasts into history for his momma. BB is a nice, beautiful horse, but has an absolutely horrible egotistical jockey. JMO.