The Triple Crowning Achievement

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:57 pm

I believe they are actually refering to quality... not quanity, my friend.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:58 pm

I'm typing this on my blackberry from my hotel room, I apologize in advance if it formats weird.

First, thanks for the opinions and civil discussion. Great reading, I'm learning a lot.

I have no problems withthe horse, but I do have a problem with his "path" and guidance.maybe here's why: When I was in the internet business, I owned a web building co. We made websites. In the hayday, clients came to us! No sellingN no hagglingM we were goodN they needed us... So it worked. I can't tell you how many offers we had, to do sex sites, work for tobacco cos, etc. We passed. It didn't feel "right". We could have lined the crap out of our pockets, we didn't. High road? Maybe. Just because we could, legally, wasn't the point. I couldn't do it. Maybe that's a weakness... Dunno. Lord knows I'm no angel, and if I did it, I wouldn't brag about it.

Performance enhancing through steroids works. Absolutely 100 percent. Some of us don't. Hey, maybe all the great of the past were jacked too... Maybe it was hush hush under the carpet... But it was never a point of pride.

Cats outta the bag, and it ruined it for me. That really all. Its become too much heralding the guys who take the easy road for me to watch.

Anyway, my thumbs are freakin sore! Seeya!

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:00 pm

On your blackberry..lol now that's diligence!!!!

Turn-To Fan · Postby **Turn-To Fan** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:03 pm

I'm thinking about Big Brown as if his breeder, Gary Knapp of Monticule, still owned him. I wish he actually did--here is a guy who took the time to carefully consider a sire who is the appropriate physical match for his mare even though he could have afforded a higher price sire. He looked at the pedigrees of both and the female families, rather than going commercial. And the result may be a Triple Crown winner. So tomorrow, I will root for Big Brown and hope more breeders will try this approach as a result.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:05 pm

Food for thought, Turn To!

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:05 pm

Turn-To Fan wrote:I'm thinking about Big Brown as if his breeder, Gary Knapp of Monticule, still owned him. I wish he actually did--here is a guy who took the time to carefully consider a sire who is the appropriate physical match for his mare even though he could have afforded a higher price sire. He looked at the pedigrees of both and the female families, rather than going commercial. And the result may be a Triple Crown winner. So tomorrow, I will root for Big Brown and hope more breeders will try this approach as a result.

I like your thinking. Bravo.

Mali · Postby **Mali** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:10 pm

I choose to focus on the Monticule aspect as well, TT, when I try to put a positive spin on my personal feelings.

He not only bred with the mare in mind, but the actual breeding goes against what most, if not all breeding analysts would tell you is appropriate and proven.

Coaltown · Postby **Coaltown** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:13 pm

I know that I am not changing any minds in regards to BB but I don't understand the whole quality vs. quantity arguement. Big Red beat two horses that people refer to as the strength of that 3YO crop. One was Sham, who won two stakes races both before the Derby and never won another. The other was Forego, who didn't hit his stride till a 4YO. If anyone wants to consider Forego as part of the quality Big Red faced during his TC run they should withhold judgement before declaring this group of 3YOs a weak crop.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:19 pm

And yet the records continue to stand. I'll make you a deal. IF BB breaks Secretariat's stake record tomorrow. No matter how painful it is, you will never hear a thing out of me on this subject again.

Mali · Postby **Mali** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:20 pm

Everything Secretariat did was ground breaking and awe-inspiring. Are you suggesting BB's performances have been comparable? Obviously, your opinion is valued, but I don't think even the biggest of BB supporters can say that.

Now if BB puts in an epic run tomorrow, maybe my opinion will change. But at this point, I think he's a very good 3 yo against a rather weak crop. I don't see how that's doing a disservice to a horse. I think the disservice is being done to the true greats who keep getting compared to him.

At this point, we really wont know until tomorrow. But a win does NOT make him great.

Quality over quantity can certainly be debated.

But a great horse running a great race has longevity, and so far, all I've seen is a good horse running good races getting sensationalized. They're not the same. They should never be compared or confused.

aardvark · Postby **aardvark** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:23 pm

a win tomorrow may not make him great, but hall of fame most likely.

Coaltown · Postby **Coaltown** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:25 pm

I not trying to compare this horse to Big Red but how can you say this crop is weak before the summer races start. Let's not forget that while this horse does not have the track and stakes records the Secretariat had BB broke his maiden first time out and has yet to be beat. Big Red not only loss his first start but loss his Derby prep as well. I don't want to compare the two but there are things that BB has done the Big Red hasn't and vice a versa. Why compare BB to Big Red I don't understand why aren't trying to compare BB to Slew they have a lot more in common.

Mali · Postby **Mali** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:26 pm

That goes without saying. A horse winning the TC deserves a spot in the HoF. Regardless of my feelings toward his "greatness", the TC is an extremely difficult task to accomplish and should be rewarded justly.

There are many horses in the HoF who I don't feel were great but are deserving of their place in history and the notations that will forever be next to their names.

Coaltown · Postby **Coaltown** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:28 pm

I do agree that quantity vs. quality can be debated I am just waiting for someone to give me examples of how bad this crop is compared to other TC winners crops. Other than Affirmed's I don't see why anyone would argue it and if they wanted to they should provide examples.

Mali · Postby **Mali** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:35 pm

Coaltown wrote:I not trying to compare this horse to Big Red but how can you say this crop is weak before the summer races start. Let's not forget that while this horse does not have the track and stakes records the Secretariat had BB broke his maiden first time out and has yet to be beat. Big Red not only loss his first start but loss his Derby prep as well. I don't want to compare the two but there are things that BB has done the Big Red hasn't and vice a versa. Why compare BB to Big Red I don't understand why aren't trying to compare BB to Slew they have a lot more in common.

You made the comparison when supporting your opinion that Secretariat's crop was weak unless you considered the late developing Forego as a contender at 3. I don't.

I don't really think you believe BB is in the same bracket as Secretariat, but I also think you're turning a blind eye to an important fact.

The crop, as it stands right now, when it matters most historically, is weak. No debate about it.

Now will some of them become good horses next year? Absolutely. But a horse getting good at 4 or 5 should not change history about a crop as 3 year olds during their classic trials.

We all know a horse only has to be a nose better than the 2nd place finisher. That's not my problem. My issue is with the broad sensationalizing of this horse.

People take offense to those who do not proclaim his greatness. In my opinion, greatness shouldn't be proclaimed until it's proven.