Winstrol

[dray33]

Im not trying to give you a hard time Drew, but if Winstrol was the drug that moves these horses forward why cant you or I claim one off Dutrow or Lake and keep it steady? Winstrol particular is the steroid that Im addressing. To say that it enhances performance without any data is dicey. In human Athletes its used in Cutting cycles, and to drop water. It is one of the few steroids that do not allow for water retention. Its gains are minimal even in humans, the dosage given to horses is so so small. To take Winstrol correctly a human needs to inject it every day, its a fast acting steroid. It doesnt have a very long activity rate in horses, or humans. So say the normal procedure for a barn is giving "winstrol" once a month. That wouldnt do anything, especially the amount they give which is 10ccs. A human bodybuilder, or athlete will take more than that in a 3 day period and be injected daily. Drew, the Winstrol is one of the few steroids that actually keep these horses steady and eating without enhancing ability.

I want to introduce you to someone the next time we are together foggy, you know him, he is renowned trainer, and much much more. Ask him if there are benefits. He has used it, he has seen it. It wasn't even a "maybe". It is fact. He gives it to 5% of his stable, the ones that need it. Night and day, without question.

[Foggytrip]

You are at a huge disadvantage if you do not proactively vet

[dray33]

You are at a huge disadvantage if you do not proactively vet

Yep. Shame on us.

[Tucumcari]

You are at a huge disadvantage if you do not proactively vet

This is very true. And why we need universal regulation

[dray33]

One more thing foggy:

Im not trying to give you a hard time Drew, but if Winstrol was the drug that moves these horses forward why cant you or I claim one off Dutrow or Lake and keep it steady?

Because they are perfectly adept at using juice, better than anyone else in the game. The trick is to claim off guys who don't use it, or use it wrong. Get those horses, and do it right... which is of course wrong, but whatever.

[spex4me]

Wow, I must live in a shoebox. I thought being proactive meant getting your horse it's yearly shots, floats, dewormings, and making sure it's nutritional needs were met sans syringe.

[Foggytrip]

Drew my argument isnt that some steroids dont make a horse improve greatly, I believe they do. Just like people when you cycle the right stuff together you get optimal results. I just do not think Winstrol is one of those steroids. There are certainly drugs that make these horses run their eyeballs out

Ill be at Saratoga the entire meet, love to speak with anyone you hold in high regard on the subject.

[Tucumcari]

Nope... definitely not, Spex. that's regular maintenance.

[Foggytrip]

You know proactive vetting when you see it. They hit all the joints, they IM apply a lotta juice, and they jug and shake. Thats proactive, its also invasive and disturbing. Needs to be stopped

[spex4me]

Nope... definitely not, Spex. that's regular maintenance.

IYO do you think that if they do away with steroids for perfomance that it will be detrimental to the horses. Not talking about when a need arises (i.e. not monthly or race time). I'm just curious for someone whose had lots more experience than I to express an opinion on that particular question.

[dray33]

I long for the days where whatever ailed a horse could be cured with some good 'ol time off and turn out. And I wasn't even alive when they did that!

ahahahaha

[Tucumcari]

Nope... definitely not, Spex. that's regular maintenance.

IYO do you think that if they do away with steroids for performance that it will be detrimental to the horses. Not talking about when a need arises (i.e. not monthly or race time). I'm just curious for someone whose had lots more experience than I to express an opinion on that particular question.

Sure, I have no qualms about regulating, banning, whatever steroids. If everyone is playing by the same rules it's good. IMHO, people are using it to "keep up with the jones'" to some degree. So and so's horses clearly are hormone horses, I have to run against him, so I better do that to. His horses are stronger, more aggressive, how do I beat or be competetive with that? And then it just gets to be routine.
I admire the people who don't pump them up and they still look fantastic and run like it too. But it's tough to compete with the high percentage guys or even have a shot if you don't use hormones.

[hdembski]

The question isn't legaliity. It isn't about who can purchase it, or administer it. It isn't about other drugs, which I agree exist and are being used.

The question is Winstrol: Does it enhance performance? The answer is: Of course. Administering steroids to enhance performance is obvious, from human athletes to equine. Why is that so tough for people to understand? Why does it need any defense? The use is obvious, the effect is obvious. It's legal and used, I get it.

well according to foggytrip an anabolic steroid doesn't improve performance. I mean i can drink a can of red bull and lift more or work out longer but, no an anabolic steroid would never do anything. I mean really...

[hdembski]

Wow, I must live in a shoebox. I thought being proactive meant getting your horse it's yearly shots, floats, dewormings, and making sure it's nutritional needs were met sans syringe.

actually if you check the FDA most vaccines are classified as class III/IV carcinogens. My dog just had a reaction to a rabie vaccine. Animals are over vaccinated to help support vet hospitals, it's their bread and butter. Most dogs don't even need half the shots they get under most circumstances....i digress

[Foggytrip]

What I said is Winstrol doesnt do anything to improve afternoon performance, it doesnt. I didnt say all steroids, I said Winstrol particular.