The breeding world has gone mad

[Michael]

SHUTTLE STALLIONS TOTAL MARES BRED

Fusaichi Pegasus Serves 346 Mares in 2004
More Than Ready--297 Mares In 2004
Fantastic Light--285 Mares In 2004
Hussonet--227 Mares in 2004

Is it just me, or has greed reached heights never before conceived?

[reenci]

what can i say mike ...the stats you showed tell it all. eventualy this can only hurt the breed in the long run.i say that because i doubt any of the above will have an impact of say a northern dancer or such horse. just mind boggling how greedy it all is. tell ya what ,its got to take it's affect on the stallion sooner or later. dont you think.

[Thunder]

Those stallions are servicing plenty of mares. Or are they using AI on the side? Thanks for these stats Michael

[Inyureye]

"Fusaichi Pegasus Serves 346 Mares in 2004 "

That has to be one pooped horse. Either that or he's got an extra set.

LOL, I just hope they took his stallion services photo before he began, because he can't be very photogenic now. For one thing, there're those two bald patches inside each foreleg, and those outsized gaskins from raising himself up several times a day. Dull coat, glazed look in his eye. Not a pretty picture.

[wilf]

Of course its greed , it also ticks me off that the shareholders allow older stallions that have been good servants at home to be suddenly shoved on a plane and have them working the southern hemisphere breeding season instead of letting down and recharging their batteries. I have flown on these horse flights and the animals receive the very best care but the stress is still there especially for the older ones.Another point is if you breed to sell and fork out a large sum to breed to one of these big guys it must be a bit grating to know that there are 300 others in the same crop that will be out there.

[Shannon]

I would say they either have incredible stallion managment, or are dabbling in a little AI action. Not very many stallions can handle that, and to see the top stallions actually doing it, I'd say there are forces greater than nature at work. Here is the scenario...
Most stallions breed from February 1 to August 1. That's 7 months. (210 days) That's 1.6 mares/day.
So how do they maintain the stallions fertility? Drugs? I don't have the info right in front of me, but it takes like 7 days to regenerate the sperm. I have done semen tests on very potent stallions (high concentrations and motility) and not many can hold out for long covering more than 2 mares a day. We test them over 7 days. Most drastically lose their fertility after the 5 day period because they cannot regenerate the sperm cells as fast as they are ejaculating them. Immature sperm will not get a mare pregant. I would be interested to see the # of covers/mare at the end of the season, as well as conception rates graphs over the season. My bet would be they decline sharply.

[FOS]

hi Michael,

Fusaichi Pegasus...346 mares in 2004...

...I suggest that "greed" may be (at the very least) a gross understatement.

Respectfully

[hurleynyc]

I would say they either have incredible stallion managment, or are dabbling in a little AI action. Not very many stallions can handle that, and to see the top stallions actually doing it, I'd say there are forces greater than nature at work. Here is the scenario...
Most stallions breed from February 1 to August 1. That's 7 months. (210 days) That's 1.6 mares/day.
So how do they maintain the stallions fertility? Drugs? I don't have the info right in front of me, but it takes like 7 days to regenerate the sperm. I have done semen tests on very potent stallions (high concentrations and motility) and not many can hold out for long covering more than 2 mares a day. We test them over 7 days. Most drastically lose their fertility after the 5 day period because they cannot regenerate the sperm cells as fast as they are ejaculating them. Immature sperm will not get a mare pregant.

Hi Shannon - thanks for giving us a little scientific perspective... does seem close to impossible for a stallion to cover 340+ mares per year - especially when you consider that probably a third or fewer mares conceive with only one cover... some mares have to be covered three times. What would that mean - a stallion would have to complete the job 500 - 700 times per year? Even if you include the Southern hemisphere breeding season, he'd be mounting mares twice a day for solid 10 months. My guess is that AI or some approximation of it, does occur. I believe the JC rules allow for use of semen "extender," and permit placement of the semen/extender mixture into a mare by a handler/technician if the stallion successfully covers the mare. Perhaps the rules are "skirted" a little - if the stallion hops around a little in the vicinity of the mare, that might be good enough for the technician (to step in and help out a little)!

I've never personally witnessed use of AI, but I've never taken a mare to an overbooked stallion (and I don't usually go to the stud farm). I did meet someone who has many years experience in the industry and he says he has personally witnessed use of AI by a major farm - but he did not tell me the name of the farm (and I didn't ask).

[BJ]

And the "herd mentality" once again goes for quantity over quality. Won't be long before Uncle Sam figures out a way to tap into the excess cash people seem to have no problem throwing away on these high-priced stallions. Just hope they throw some back for the care and feeding of all the high-priced rejects.

[Michael]

Most of us know that A.I. is the dirty little secret in our industry that everyone knows about but no one is willing to talk about.

I learned this first hand several years ago when a farm where I stood a stallion admitted to me in writing that it had been using A.I. on my horse. I contacted the Jockey Club Registrar and he and Nick Nicholson (on T.V. at this moment for the Eclipse Awards) traveled all the way to CA to "investigate." Fortunately for the farm manager, the farm was owned by two sitting members of The Jockey Club board of directors! It came as no surprise to me when they failed to take any action against the farm, even though I had a number of hand written faxes and emails admitting to its use.

"Don't ask, don't tell" is the Jockey Club's motto for Artificial Insemination.
Does it happen--you bet, a lot; will it be stopped--not for the big farms!

[hurleynyc]

and the irony is that stallions' books continue to increase to preposterous sizes under the "live cover" regulations which were putatively designed to prevent this!! (whereas if the Jockey Club permitted AI, I believe it could simultaneously impose reasonable limitations on stallion book sizes without faling afoul of laws against trade restriction etc). anyway, won't waste the words because it's an old argument falling on deaf ears and will remain that way until someone has the courage to legally challenge the "live cover" regulations.

[mary syers]

Forget quanity. What happens to quality? Doesn't anybody remember Tesio's tenent of nervous energy? If you use up the stallion, quality must fall, if Tesio is right. Anybody want to bet against Tesio? Mary

[reenci]

so i guess if we mare owner's want tesio's nervous energy transmitted to our mare's, we should stick to stallion's with normal books...on the small side....then again the ol'e saying is use it or lose it.....but 300+ is self abuse.

[horsenuts]

346 mares breed to one horse?.. and to think these people are paying $150,000 to breed to these studs. Be like buying the Mona Lisa only to find out there are several hundred more "just like her". Talk about a poor business decision.

You lead one over to the paddock at Saratoga in MSW.. look down the paddock stalls and the field is made up of 6 Fupegs and 6 Giant Causeways. Tell me again why these people are paying $150,000 a pop?

And how about when these horses go to stud? Imagine Lane's End/Coolmore/Asford/Three Chimneys etc. will have to build several more stallion barns to accomodate all these Fupegs and Giants. Then what will they stand for?.. fire sale anyone?

I think we can all see where this is headed.. and it's not good.

[Flight]

I assume that foal share arrangements are also in place over there.

We just don't have enough breeders over here with such deep pockets to splash out $100k plus for a service fee. And the ones that do, don't have enough mares to fill the books of all the shuttle stallions.

Hence the farms would be doing some interesting deals with owners of "worthy" mares.

Many of the first crop Fu Pegs sold for less than advertised service fee last year. Many were foal shares. The really nice types did OK and were probably cheap compared to NH prices but most just happened to have been bought by NH buyers.

More Than Ready had THREE two year old winners in the space of 48 hours just a week or so before the Magic Millions yearling sale this month. Isn't the timing such a coincidence????????

His service fee will go up in 2005 over here.

I personally have no interest in a stallion that is serving in those sorts of numbers. Even Zabeel went off the boil when he served 200+ mares in one hemisphere. Commonsense has reduced his book and he again is getting some nice nice race horses. Some of his 200+ per season progeny were small and weak.

The old saying "buyers beware" has now changed to "breeders beware".