Prince John

[ZiaLand]

I'm doing some research on a pedigree with three crosses of Prince John, (4x5 on the dam's side through a daughter and a son, and 5x on the sire's side through a daughter) and I'd like to get some insights on this sire.

It appears that he was a successful sire producing around 10% stakes winnners. I understand he had a nick with Grey Dawn II. Were there any other outstanding nicks?

Was Prince John's son Speak John also considered a successful sire?

Thanks,
Laurie

[louis finochio]

PRINCE JOHN CH. 1953--1979
Princequillo---Not Afraid, by Count Fleet

Prince John produced superior nicks with the sire lines of Domino--Ben Brush---Chaucer---Orby---Peter Pan---and Questionnaire.

Great Foundation Sire. Sire of Sires, and BMS. Prince John adds soundness to the breed, for those sire lines that are not to sound.

In this time frame of today Prince John grandsons and their sons are not reproducing their like in the stallion dept. This Prince Rose sire line is looking for a new stallion to carry this sire line on into the future. Siphon is currently carrying on this Prince Rose sire line. Maybe one of Siphon's sons will carry the sire line, when Siphon is gone.

[ZiaLand]

Thanks Louis!

Laurie

[louis finochio]

Yes Speak John was a successful sire, he was an Elmdorf stallion.

[kimberley mine]

Prince John had two other successful sons at stud:

Stage Door Johnny (Prince John-Peroxide Blonde, by Ballymoss)

Stage Door Johnny was a Belmont Stakes winner and very rare American-bred solid/professional chef-de-race. See, they do exist. I don't know if he has any sons at stud alive; I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any sons at stud in the US. He is the broodmare sire of Kentucky Derby winner Go for Gin and of champion Pleasant Tap.

Silent Screen (Prince John-Prayer Bell, by Better Self)

Champion 2yo colt who was still competitive at 3. His 3rd dam is the dam of Stage Door Johnny (good cross!). He has at least one son at stud in the US: Dusty Screen, who stands in Pennsylvania. He seems to be doing well as a blue-collar breed to race stallion, but unless he throws something spectacular he will be the last Silent Screen-line horse in the US.

To add a comment to Louis' nice little summary, Prince John threw horses who wanted a route of ground (a big route of ground, in the case of Stage Door Johnny). The current US stallion market for dirt routers is very small.

[Northlight]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Regal+Johnnie&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

Regal Johnnie may be standing in Michigan still.

Not too many pedigrees today look like that!

[Mahubah]

Pleasant Colony had a rather strong affinity for Stage Door Johnny mares, I believe. Prince John mares did well with a wide variety of sire lines.

[jellac]

Stage Door Johnny also sired Johnny Appleseed who in turn is known for having sired several mares that raced well and a few that have been bred on:


Female Star -
? Starts, 5 Wins, Places, Shows Career Earnings: $51,062
Most importanly: Dam of Millionaire and Sire DISPERSAL.

One Trick Pony -
DAM of Lamdo '90: 98 Starts, 20 Wins, 10 Places, 9 Shows Career Earnings: $127,634 (In North America: 66-16-6-9, $103,748. In Puerto Rico: 32-4-4-0, $23,886. No registered foals yet.)

[mini's mom]

I used to work for the man who trained prince john for mr gluck of elmendorf - Les talked fondly of the horse and how he was a hard knocking sire - Les did say that mr gluck never liked to spend his $$ - I remember him telling me that one year mr gluck gave them all cadillacs for christmas when they had an outstanding year - les worked with john kelly - les died a couple of years ago - his mare nile flirt supported him in a nursing home - her kids generated $$ from the lucrative new york state breeders program - I miss him -

susan

[Karie]

Regal Johnnie is not a breed to race sire. Not one of his foals ever won a race...
He is tiny... and has an arab like head.
He is a great cross for appendix Quarter horses...

I used to board my horse where he used to be (Kathy Crowley's in New Hudson MI) She later sold/leased him out to the current farm he is at.

[Keith]

1. Magazine by Prince John-Day Line by Day Court won CCA Oaks
2. Stage Door Johnny by Prince John-Peroxide Blonde by Ballymoss won Belmont S. and was Champion Three Year Old
3. Class Play by Stage Door Johnny-Flying Buttress by Exclusive Native won CCA Oaks
4. Crazy Moon by Stage Door Johnny-Crazy Music by Hail to Reason won Laurel Turf Cup
5. Open Call by Stage Door Johnny-Silly Game by Sir Gaylord won Rothams International S.
6. Princelet by Stage Door Johnny-Regal Purple by Beau Purple won Meadowlands Cup
7. Typecast by Prince John-Journalist by Summer Tan won Hollywood Park Inv. Turf H.,Man O War S.,Sunset H., Champion older mare
8. Silent Screen by Prince John-Prayer Bell by Better Self Champion 2 year old
9. Protagonist by Prince John-Hornpipe by Hornbeam Chp. Two year old
10. Transworld by Prince John-Hornpipe by Hornbeam won Irish St. Leger
11. Speak John by Prince John-Nuits de Folies by Tornado won Del Mar Derby
12. Alleged by Hoist the Flag-Princess Pout by Prince John won Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe
13. Cozzene by Caro-Ride the Trails by Prince John Champion Turf Horse.
14. Riverman by Never Bend-River Lady by Prince John
15. Slewpy by Seattle Slew-Rare Bouquet by Prince John
16. Spend a Buck by Buckaroo- Belle de Jour by Speak John
17. Go For Gin by Cormorant-Never Knock by Stage Door Johnny
18. Pleasant Tap by Pleasant Colony-Never Knock by Stage Door Johnny
19. Palace Music by The Minstrel-Come my Prince by Prince John
20. Big Spruce by Herbager-Silver Sari by Prince John

Keith

[springboro]

Actually, Stage Door Johnny does have at least one live son and I just got him! His name is Broadway Jester and his dam is Bebopper - making him a 1/2 brother to stallions Stop the Music and Hatchet Man.

He's 24 and has been used as a teaser for the past few years, so I don't even know if he is fertile, but what a bit of history!

I am still trying to work out where he's going to stay in Indiana, but if anyone is looking for some old and very stout lines, I hope he'll be available next year!

[Joltman]

Congrats on your stallion. Nice to try to preserve the bloodline if the old boy can get it done.

Just a thought - perhaps test breed a mare or two now? Although any resultant foal would be very very late, I don't think that Stage Door Johnny produced many early runners as it was. So one wouldn't expect the foal to run til 3 or even 4 anyway, and you would have lost only a few months in reality.


jm

[springboro]

actually, I was hoping to cover one of my mares whom I didn't breed back this year. Her name is Helen O, and she's by a Nureyev son and out of an Argentine champion 2 year old. I don't mind a late foal from her, and had halfway thought with her Southern Hemisphere themed pedigree I might be able to market the foal in Argentina or Brazil. Dreaming out loud, of course.

I do think he needs some Northern Dancer and Mr. P mares. Should be plenty of those around somewhere!

[KBEquine]

Actually, Stage Door Johnny does have at least one live son and I just got him! His name is Broadway Jester and his dam is Bebopper - making him a 1/2 brother to stallions Stop the Music and Hatchet Man.

Congratulations, Springboro - I was halfway keeping an eye on him & I'm glad to see he's found a good home.