Vet ethics
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Vet ethics
Does anyone know of anything in black and white that states that a vet has to notifiy the owner (time frame wise) of the death of a horse? How about disposing of the horse 3 days before notifing owner? There has to be something somewhere!
You should probably call the police and tell them what happened. Is there any evidence other than the vets word as to what happened to the horse? Was the body disposed of by an indepent 3rd party? How was it disposed of? Maybe the veterinarian was guilty of a crime and can be charged by the police with theft or cruelty or fraud. If the police are no help some lawyers will give a free consultation and maybe you can sue. The vet is probably trying to cover up some kind of wrongdoing or you would have been notified right away and given options as to whether or not you wanted an autopsy and whether you wanted cremation or burial. Try to get the police to investigate it. Maybe the horse was sold(stolen) and is not dead.
That depends on your availability. Did he try to contact you and you were not at home? We had a situation once where we were boarding a horse that colicked on a Friday. The horse had a torsion and was in terrible pain. The owner simply did not answer his phone and in fact did not return our many, many calls until Monday. This was in the early '80s when surgery was often unsuccessful. The vet advised that we euthanize the horse for mercy, which we did, of course. Then it suddenly became the most valuable horse in the world. The owner made a huge stink, but he had been gone for the weekend, and family members would not assist in decision making. We were not liable.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
Did you give the vet care and custody of the horse? If so he has that obligation to you. If he was treating at another farm or called by someone else - maybe not. Sounds like an open door for a law suit - but I'm sure there is a lot unsaid.
Once the veterinarians and the client have agreed, and the veterinarians have begun patient care, they may not neglect their patient and must continue to provide professional services related to that injury or illness within the previously agreed limits. As subsequent needs and costs for patient care are identified, the veterinarians and client must confer and reach agreement on the continued care and responsibility for fees. If the informed client declines further care or declines to assume responsibility for the fees, the VCPR may be terminated by either party. Vet Code of Ethics
Once the veterinarians and the client have agreed, and the veterinarians have begun patient care, they may not neglect their patient and must continue to provide professional services related to that injury or illness within the previously agreed limits. As subsequent needs and costs for patient care are identified, the veterinarians and client must confer and reach agreement on the continued care and responsibility for fees. If the informed client declines further care or declines to assume responsibility for the fees, the VCPR may be terminated by either party. Vet Code of Ethics
Yes, finally went to court on part of it. I was stunned - - - - the judge stated and I have the transcrpit "it doesn't matter if she told you 3 days later or a week". I counldn't believe that. This vet basically took my rights away as being the owner. Vet never told me for 3 days!!! and I was at the farm for breedings. What a nightmere!!!!!
I did not realize that things were so bad in other states also. It is a really terrible thing that these people can get away with things like that. I thought VA was bad then I hear someone else has a problem with a vet in MD and now you in Ohio. I hired a vet to deliver a dead foal that the mare could not pass. The vet cut the front half of the foal off,threw the mare down and shoved the rear half back inside of her, put his arm inside her,killed her and then made a crass comment about a sofa not fitting thru a doorway. He claims to be an equine reproduction specialist. A qualified vet can do a fetotomy which is cutting up the dead foal and removing it entirely without injury to the mare and I checked on the procedure and the mare is supposed to remain standing. I complained to the vet board but they did nothing to him not even a fine. Years earlier I complained about another vet pulling a calf with a truck and they did nothing to her either. She said she could not do a c-section or a fetotomy and the calf could not be delivered using a calf puller because it was too big. Why are people with medical licenses allowed to get away with everything? Are they bribing judges? Some should never have gotten licenses since they are not even qualified to practice medicine and are more likely to kill your animals than help them. If your horses death was not the vets fault? the body of the horse was still your property and you had a right to an autopsy,etc. I hope you will tell everybody what this vet did. Stick to the facts and post on the net and tell everybody else you know with horses. I did that. I tried to save others from them especially the one who killed my mare. Make sure the vet gets that bad word of mouth. Hopefully the vet will lose other peoples business besides yours and regret not having done the right thing.
krp wrote:Yes, finally went to court on part of it. I was stunned - - - - the judge stated and I have the transcrpit "it doesn't matter if she told you 3 days later or a week". I counldn't believe that. This vet basically took my rights away as being the owner. Vet never told me for 3 days!!! and I was at the farm for breedings. What a nightmere!!!!!
Sounds like your beef should be with the farm. They had Care, Custody & Control, so they were your agent with the vet. The farm should have kept you informed. You sued the wrong party.
The thread title caught my eye. I would think whatever agreement you had with the farm would prevail in any litigation.
As for "ethics of vets", I find that Vets are either very ethical and caring of the animal and the owner's rights, or they are better bookkeepers than they are ethical, respectful or compassionate. Vets somehow tend to have more loyalty and respect for their relationships with farms and trainers than they do with the owners of the horses. It's as if the owner is a disinterested third party.
As for "ethics of vets", I find that Vets are either very ethical and caring of the animal and the owner's rights, or they are better bookkeepers than they are ethical, respectful or compassionate. Vets somehow tend to have more loyalty and respect for their relationships with farms and trainers than they do with the owners of the horses. It's as if the owner is a disinterested third party.
Hi KRP,
Sorry to hear of your situation.
Unfortunately most judges will have little or no understanding of the horse industry and little patience to learn and so they are unwilling to impose penalties on vets.
As an owner it's your responsibility to keep on top of the situation at all times and to demand explanations for the course of care that a vet takes. I'm not admonishing, only stating a comon sense fact that you are and will be the best advocate for yourself and your horses.
Regards,
Pete
Sorry to hear of your situation.
Unfortunately most judges will have little or no understanding of the horse industry and little patience to learn and so they are unwilling to impose penalties on vets.
As an owner it's your responsibility to keep on top of the situation at all times and to demand explanations for the course of care that a vet takes. I'm not admonishing, only stating a comon sense fact that you are and will be the best advocate for yourself and your horses.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
krp wrote:cng - well the vet actually owned the farm. I sued the vet, her practice and the farm. Yes, I agree they should have, but the judge said it didn't matter at all.
You should have appealled it, unless it was small claims court. Unless there is a lot that is being left out - I could have won in court. Did you have an attorney? You need to go to your state board and file a complaint on the Vet.
cng-
I can tell you from experience that the state board will only side with the vet. I have my case transcripted and recorded and literally the vet in my case said that yes this particular surgery went awry, yes she did her own necropsy after 2 requests NOT to, and that she was not directly responsible for death of said animal because it was her subordinates that let the animal bleed to death and forgot about it. Last time I checked if you are the top of the totem pole you ARE responsible for those you supervise ultimately.
My great dane died b/c a vet was hurrying to get home and start her Thanksgiving festivities and the whole damn table crashed to the ground along with 150# sedated dog. Her tech swore to a written affadavit that she requested the procedure be halted b/c of possible unknown trauma to dog. Vet denied request and continued. State necropsy conclusion: internal blunt force trauma conclusive with incident of table collapse. AND still the vet board said OH NO...what if this what if that what if what if what if....... not even a fine imposed.
So you tell me what good that is going to do krp if they have not already done so. Vets know the door is being held closed on malpractice with them and they also know that if they (as the BOARD ) open it then they all will be held responsible. Say goodbye to malpractice insurance that costs less than 300 a year for a million in coverage.
My case will be filed in October almost two years from the date of my incident. And all I have gotten is a bill for the dead dogs surgery and reminders that she is due for shots. I'm sure T.V.'s own Matlock may win against this establishment but I can tell you very few real attorneys will.
And knowing this we still continue b/c it is a matter of principle. No one feels responsible for anything anymore and that is a damned shame.
Again very sorry krp, I know how you feel. Makes you feel like beating your head against a brick wall is more productive.
I can tell you from experience that the state board will only side with the vet. I have my case transcripted and recorded and literally the vet in my case said that yes this particular surgery went awry, yes she did her own necropsy after 2 requests NOT to, and that she was not directly responsible for death of said animal because it was her subordinates that let the animal bleed to death and forgot about it. Last time I checked if you are the top of the totem pole you ARE responsible for those you supervise ultimately.
My great dane died b/c a vet was hurrying to get home and start her Thanksgiving festivities and the whole damn table crashed to the ground along with 150# sedated dog. Her tech swore to a written affadavit that she requested the procedure be halted b/c of possible unknown trauma to dog. Vet denied request and continued. State necropsy conclusion: internal blunt force trauma conclusive with incident of table collapse. AND still the vet board said OH NO...what if this what if that what if what if what if....... not even a fine imposed.
So you tell me what good that is going to do krp if they have not already done so. Vets know the door is being held closed on malpractice with them and they also know that if they (as the BOARD ) open it then they all will be held responsible. Say goodbye to malpractice insurance that costs less than 300 a year for a million in coverage.
My case will be filed in October almost two years from the date of my incident. And all I have gotten is a bill for the dead dogs surgery and reminders that she is due for shots. I'm sure T.V.'s own Matlock may win against this establishment but I can tell you very few real attorneys will.
And knowing this we still continue b/c it is a matter of principle. No one feels responsible for anything anymore and that is a damned shame.
Again very sorry krp, I know how you feel. Makes you feel like beating your head against a brick wall is more productive.
trying to come up with something brillant..... this may take a while. 
spex4me wrote:cng-
I can tell you from experience that the state board will only side with the vet. I have my case transcripted and recorded and literally the vet in my case said that yes this particular surgery went awry, yes she did her own necropsy after 2 requests NOT to, and that she was not directly responsible for death of said animal because it was her subordinates that let the animal bleed to death and forgot about it. Last time I checked if you are the top of the totem pole you ARE responsible for those you supervise ultimately.
My great dane died b/c a vet was hurrying to get home and start her Thanksgiving festivities and the whole damn table crashed to the ground along with 150# sedated dog. Her tech swore to a written affadavit that she requested the procedure be halted b/c of possible unknown trauma to dog. Vet denied request and continued. State necropsy conclusion: internal blunt force trauma conclusive with incident of table collapse. AND still the vet board said OH NO...what if this what if that what if what if what if....... not even a fine imposed.
So you tell me what good that is going to do krp if they have not already done so. Vets know the door is being held closed on malpractice with them and they also know that if they (as the BOARD ) open it then they all will be held responsible. Say goodbye to malpractice insurance that costs less than 300 a year for a million in coverage.
My case will be filed in October almost two years from the date of my incident. And all I have gotten is a bill for the dead dogs surgery and reminders that she is due for shots. I'm sure T.V.'s own Matlock may win against this establishment but I can tell you very few real attorneys will.
And knowing this we still continue b/c it is a matter of principle. No one feels responsible for anything anymore and that is a damned shame.
Again very sorry krp, I know how you feel. Makes you feel like beating your head against a brick wall is more productive.
Of course they will side with the vets - the boards are made up of mostly vets. The complaint HAS to be recorded though. Enough complaints and something might happen. The licensure board is not the venue to adjudicate, the courts are. They are the place to complain about the unethical practice of a licensee.