Colonel John by a whisker....now that's a horse race. The turn for home was ugly with all the bumping and a few horses got pinched back. Pyro third...I agree that 10 furlongs is not his distance. He also isn't the same horse he was back in the spring.
Still think this crop is mediocre and beats up on each other when Big Brown is not around. I still think Big Brown is no Secretariat, Man O' War or whatever great they compare him to. Is his turf race going to be televised and when is it?
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bdw0617
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you stole my thunder and said in a PG-13 way that I ovbiously am not capable of.
IMHO, we have not experienced a crop of 3YO's this bad since i have followed racing. about 12 years now. they aren't good and I just have to lower my expectations.
I am expecting for a horse to jump up. AGS and Hard spun while great horses, stepped up to another level this time last year.
it's like, the father they go this year, the worse they are. Eight Belles, if she were living, would be, outside of big brown, the best 3YO in the country. And part of it is circumstances. WE had good horses. Etched has as much talent as anyone and he's stuck in dubai. Georgie Boy is better, way better, than Colonel John and he has been injuried for a long time now. Crown of Thorns could run as well. War Pass is the 2YO champ and sitll a (legit) grade 1 horse that isn't at the track. Eight Belles passed away. And Casino Drive happens to be based in another country. Even Dennis of Cork is layed up somewhere.
IF we could get all of them together, we could see a real horse race.
to add, for instance, I was handicapping this race, and i've been handicapping long enough to where a Grade 1 horse is supposed to look like X. I can't explain it. But I know what a horse that is capable of winning a grade 1 horse is supposed to look like. Same with Grade 2, same with grade 3 and down.
when you look at these horses, you automatically throw all of them out becuase under normal circumstances, none of them would have a chance. then after you have wasted time doing that, you have to go back and say, someone has to win.
IMHO, we have not experienced a crop of 3YO's this bad since i have followed racing. about 12 years now. they aren't good and I just have to lower my expectations.
I am expecting for a horse to jump up. AGS and Hard spun while great horses, stepped up to another level this time last year.
it's like, the father they go this year, the worse they are. Eight Belles, if she were living, would be, outside of big brown, the best 3YO in the country. And part of it is circumstances. WE had good horses. Etched has as much talent as anyone and he's stuck in dubai. Georgie Boy is better, way better, than Colonel John and he has been injuried for a long time now. Crown of Thorns could run as well. War Pass is the 2YO champ and sitll a (legit) grade 1 horse that isn't at the track. Eight Belles passed away. And Casino Drive happens to be based in another country. Even Dennis of Cork is layed up somewhere.
IF we could get all of them together, we could see a real horse race.
to add, for instance, I was handicapping this race, and i've been handicapping long enough to where a Grade 1 horse is supposed to look like X. I can't explain it. But I know what a horse that is capable of winning a grade 1 horse is supposed to look like. Same with Grade 2, same with grade 3 and down.
when you look at these horses, you automatically throw all of them out becuase under normal circumstances, none of them would have a chance. then after you have wasted time doing that, you have to go back and say, someone has to win.
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
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Still Dreaming
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All I know is I was jumping up and down, pumping my arms like some insane ghost rider, and screaming things which common decency prevents me from posting on this board. I sincerely thought that Mambo in Seattle had won it. This IS a mediocre crop, but all I care about right now is the fact that COLONEL JOHN WON!!!!! 
:D:D JOHNNY C. WON ON DIRT!!!!! TIZNOW GOT A TRAVERS WINNER!!!!!
For once, one of the horses I really like does NOT fail spectacularly...
:D:D JOHNNY C. WON ON DIRT!!!!! TIZNOW GOT A TRAVERS WINNER!!!!!
For once, one of the horses I really like does NOT fail spectacularly...
It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age he had been dead for two years.
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bdw0617
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zinn21 wrote:Colonel John was my early Derby pick and stuck with him on the 1st Saturday in May.
Glad to see he redeemed himself today. He's a very nice colt. BTW, so much for the synthetic surface syndrome.
what exactly is the "synethic surface syndrome"?
I think alot of the people get confused.
You have two groups of people. You have the "it's rubber! that's not real racing!" group and will go to no lengths to bash anything west of the mississippi because they all run on synethic.
Then you have the group that I am in, who could care less what they run on, but just thinks that that all colts and geldings west of the mississippi just aren't good.
while he won, being at the top of the bottom of the barrell does not make you a good horse. he's the 2nd or 3rd best horse of this crop, i'll give him that. But overall, i'm waiting for something to jump out, and it's not happening.
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
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We all see in the horses what we want to see I guess. I don't understand why so many people are unimpressed with CJ. He has virtually the same running style as Curlin (long fluid strides) except Curlin has a rider that keeps him out of trouble. I've made lots of money betting on CJ, but I pull my hair out every time watching the rides he gets. CJ does not have an explosive turn of foot so sitting on the rail waiting for a hole to open up is just about the stupidest strategy you can have if you have a horse that is going to take 5 seconds to gear up after he sees the hole.
BB on the other hand has an explosive turn of foot, but I find his running style to be awkward. If BB makes it to the BC Classic (I will wait and see about that) I don't think he will beat CJ (if the lord has mercy and gives CJ a clean trip). I'm not sure either of them will be up to beating the older horses that show up. JMHO
BB on the other hand has an explosive turn of foot, but I find his running style to be awkward. If BB makes it to the BC Classic (I will wait and see about that) I don't think he will beat CJ (if the lord has mercy and gives CJ a clean trip). I'm not sure either of them will be up to beating the older horses that show up. JMHO
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bdw0617
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Because Curlin is about 20 lengths better than Colonel John That's why.
putting curlin in the same sentence with colonel john should be blasphemy. curlin would run away and hide in this race today. they are both what BRIS would call P horses. yes I use bris from time to time. But that's like saying Closing Argument And Silky Sullivan were "the same horse" because they both "had the same style".
putting curlin in the same sentence with colonel john should be blasphemy. curlin would run away and hide in this race today. they are both what BRIS would call P horses. yes I use bris from time to time. But that's like saying Closing Argument And Silky Sullivan were "the same horse" because they both "had the same style".
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
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Closing Argument and Silky Sullivan had the same style? Sorry, but I never saw Closing Argument drop 25-30 lengths off the pace and then make a charge from there, which was Silky's style. I'd have to look at the charts, but I doubt Closing Argument was ever more than seven or eight lengths off the lead in any of his races. Quicken Tree is about the only other racer of the post-WW II era that I can think of that would drop off the pace as much as Silky did and still win major events; he had to have been one of the worst gate horses ever seen as he'd practically freeze every time the bell rang.
Silky Sullivan, by the way, was quite an interesting horse. He was bred for sprinting, and his ability to handle 8.5 to 9 furlongs well was something of a mystery to pedigree pundits. Thoroughbred historian William Robertson said of him that he had a respiratory problem which typically took about 2-3 furlongs of galloping to clear. Once his breathing cleared up, he'd then kick in with his normal race, a six-furlong sprint, which roughly coincided with the finish of a nine-furlong race.
I believe the comparison between Curlin and Colonel John was with regard to running style and stride, not racing merit. On dirt, Curlin is the clear superior of any of this group of 3yos, including Big Brown -- which is why BB's connections have no intention of going near him unless the conditions are in their favor in some way.
Silky Sullivan, by the way, was quite an interesting horse. He was bred for sprinting, and his ability to handle 8.5 to 9 furlongs well was something of a mystery to pedigree pundits. Thoroughbred historian William Robertson said of him that he had a respiratory problem which typically took about 2-3 furlongs of galloping to clear. Once his breathing cleared up, he'd then kick in with his normal race, a six-furlong sprint, which roughly coincided with the finish of a nine-furlong race.
I believe the comparison between Curlin and Colonel John was with regard to running style and stride, not racing merit. On dirt, Curlin is the clear superior of any of this group of 3yos, including Big Brown -- which is why BB's connections have no intention of going near him unless the conditions are in their favor in some way.
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oliverstoned
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