Let down and steroids

[Jenny]

It is not illegal to race on steroids her in Canada. We have claimed a few that have been on it and we have raced on it as well. I just wanted to say, now that the other thread has been locked. I though we were sharing some relative information and enjoyed peoples personal observations and recipes.

This in no way is an Attack on anyone on this forum. I am just stating a well known fact about TB's

Anyway. My point was that racehorses have let down after, I was told by my vet that it lasts for about 6 weeks after the last injection. I have noticed approximately the same time frame. Our horses have never lost a ton of weight and looked like shit after. So I don't know what is going on with these horses that have lost weight. But I have found through personal experience, that you need to feed more. Not try different types of feed and all that, just give them more food. It is not rocket science.

I leased out a mare once and when I went to check on her she was very thin, and I was pissed, they could not understand why she had lost weight, Trying this thing and that thing, and I asked them to show me what she was getting. They were just not feeding her enough. TB's are hard keepers!!! HELLO!!! Some are easier keepers than others, I admit, but if you are used to QH's, and think they can live on the same amount of food. THEN GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE!!!

I am not talking about abuse or neglect or intentional starvation. I am just saying that to get weight on a horse. Feed it more. They need to take in more calories than they are expending. Tons of good hay, water and feed!

[ponytales1976]

THANK YOU. I am a TB rescue, majority of the time I get them right off the track. I generally see "let down" of the ones that were racing on steroids in about 30 days after they get here. They require many more calories then your average horse, it's not rocket science...FEED THEM.
Example: This TB is pictured was last raced Sept 07, the picture was taken of him the day he got here in June 08

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj47 ... 1222215850

This was taken of him not even 3 months later. All we did as far as weight gain was de-worm him, give him a weeks worth of probiotics, free choice hay, and 10 quarts of Triple Crown Complete/day

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj47 ... 1222216599

[soft hearted]

That Tbs (in general and specifically) have evolved to metabolically NEED higher protein levels than most other horses?
I've found that, inevitably, I'll need to either a) transition them direct from the track, or b) just boost them (forever) on a protein supplement.
IF they're going to be able to "let down" to *other* normal horse feeds, it's going to take a few months of that feed WITH the added protein (usually soy meal) and then taper the protein.
I *do* find that if a horse is going to drop condition, it'll be within the first month, maybe two. Keep your eyes on 'em and adjust (increase) feed/proteins/fats accordingly. Not rocket science. And even if it was - we have calculators now
Alternatively, the odd one comes in that flat out can't handle simple first cut and just keeps dropping. Cut the carbs, up the protein, usually oil when the hay seems to be an issue (go to second cut as a first measure) and voila!
Granted, with all the research now coming to the fore about EPSM and prevelance in TBs (I'd always thought it was a draft thingy), it's a little more understandable. After all, they are horses that have been bred to WORK for generations! Of course they've adapted.

[ponytales1976]

They do have a completely different metabolic rate then other horses, especially right off the track. Muscle burns more calories then fat does. Which is why an athlete can eat more and stay trim. I don't find that I need much protein, rather more fat. I feed a complete feed that is high in fiber and fat and low in non-structural carbs and protein. We feed that in addition to free choice grass and grass hay. If we still need extra we go to the Soy Oil for added calories. I thought it was funny that it was mentioned that I have Triple Crown Feed as a corporate sponsor and that is why I reccomend them. I reccommend them, and use them for my rescues because it is a superior quality feed. I used them long before they were a corporate sponsor of our rescue. I am a firm believer in probiotics as well and TC has them in their feed.

[Jenny]

What I don't understand is skinny horses coming off the track. How can they race in that condition? Not enough food to maintain them, let alone high levels of work. Our racehorse don't look like that. They are tucked up in the girth area because the level of fitness they maintain, but they do have lots of muscle and some fat as well!!!

I also like and feed flax seed meal with their other grains. Timothy/alfalfa hay and also some second cut mostly alfalfa hay. Although this year with such a bad season for drying hay, I had to purchase a mostly grass/alfalfa mix.

[ponytales1976]

If you look at the thread in question, those horses did not come skinny, they ended up that way afterwards.

[Jenny]

I am not referring to any particular horses.

I am just stating a fact about some racehorses in general and some feed programs in general.

I liked the other thread in which we were sharing ideas about feed. I have learned something new. I love to learn and grow. Especially if it benefits my horses and my knowledge of horses. It is when you think you know everything you are in trouble.

[ponytales1976]

I agree with you there 100%

[Mikki79]

I apologize to all. I am woman enough to admit that I was wrong to let my anger get the best of me. Our personal disagreement between myself and ponytales shouldn't be passed on to the forum members and Milestone would like to apologize to everyone and especially to the moderators.

I stand by Vintage Versatility being a great feed for horses that are emaciated and also using ration plus. We've had great success over the past month with these products. Once everyone has evened out then we place them on Mosher Mixture a grain specifically created for equine within our area.

[Jenny]

That was very nice Mikki.

Ok now onto another topic about feeding.

I have a foal born April 7th and I find him a bit on the thin side. I feed Purina Juvenile. He gets 2 quarts morning and night plus 1 cup of optimal ( which in a vitamin and mineral supplement) also. I would really like him to get a little more beefed up. But he just keeps getting taller. Eveerytime he sprouts up he gets thinner. I don't mean hp bones sticking out or anything, but like pointy shoulders. and you can see his ribs a little. I hate it and it is driving me nuts. I don't want to over feed him either. any suggestions? I am going to go and get a couple of pics to post.

[Mikki79]

Jenny, i'm not great with babies (that's more my mother's area of expertise) but it sounds like you are feeding him plenty and that he's just growing up faster than he is out... I think once he evens out and starts working himself you'll see him beef out some, TB's obviously are a lot different from the QH baby that I currently have but I have him in an area where he works himself on a hill, not a big one just a gradual hill that takes a little effort and he has a nice chest and big hind quarters forming. Really a nice looking colt!!!! And he is an appendix QH so he does have some TB in him.

Is your foal a fairly tall boy and that could be part of the reason why he's not as proportional as you'd like? Here's a picture of our boy.... I LOVE HIM!!!! He is getting the mosher mix 1 QT 3x daily, plus part of mom's as well..... He's ready to start weaning

[Mood Swings]

I wouldn't panic if your foal is showing some ribs. It is the same with kids (human that is ) they are typically like walking sticks, lol. I think it is when your foal has NO sign of ribs that you make some changes. JMO. We feed Juvenile as well and because all of the foals mature at different rates, in some cases I cut the Juvenile back and substitute Optimal pellets and in other cases I have to feed a lot of Juvenile in order to keep a healthy amount of weight on.
I am sure you are just being a fussy mom

[Jenny]

I could only get one crappy pic because I was losing light and in the arena. I did put a stick on him and he is 13.3+ and was born April 7th. Is that tall?
Moodswings we also feed optimal pellets. I really like the feed. but I am just a bit worried about over feeding and him going over att he knee or something like that. I know he should not be too fat either, but his shoulders are so freekin pointy!! I think the pic adds 10 lbs lol

[cewright]

Jenny

Regarding your weanling, perhaps the recommendations from this study from Texas A&M would help.

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/main/acad ... horses.pdf

I have had excellent results following these recommendations!

Regards

Chuck

[serenarider]

Jenny

Regarding your weanling, perhaps the recommendations from this study from Texas A&M would help.

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/main/acad ... horses.pdf

I have had excellent results following these recommendations!

Regards

Chuck

Chuck,
correct me if I am reading that wrong. But are they saying to feed the weanlings more grain then hay?