And the Eclipse goes to...

[oliverstoned]

HOY................................Zenyatta
Champion 3yo Colt...........Big Brown
Champion Older Horse......Curlin
Champion Older Mare.......Zenyatta
Champion 2yo Filly...........Stardom Bound


Those are the locks, anyone care to fill in the rest for me?

[zinn21]

oliverstoned wrote:

HOY................................Zenyatta
Champion 3yo Colt...........Big Brown
Champion Older Horse......Curlin
Champion Older Mare.......Zenyatta
Champion 2yo Filly...........Stardom Bound

Ditto

[Georgerz]

Champion 3yr Old Male: Raven Pass
Champion 3yr Old Filly: Music Note

[Heidilady]

Champion 3yr Old Male: Raven Pass

Hardly. A little insane not to give it to the only 3yo male in contention for HOY dontcha think? It won't be going to Raven's Pass. Since the contenders will be Curlin, Big Brown, and Zenyatta, I'd say they win their respective divisions.

[horsenuts]

I'd vote for Peppers Pride ahead of Zenyata if the type criteria most here are proposing is how the voting should be cast as she has won 17 straight. Zenyata never faced the best horses in the world and if the connections wanted to win HoY that is what they needed to do. Goldikova a 3 year old filly faced older males and handily beat them in the turf mile. Goldikova is in line for HoY before Zenyata.


Zenyata is asking for HoY by default. What a pathetic way to win such an award. She could have went to Dubai and faced Curlin.... or to New York and taken him on or faced him in the Classic. But to expect such an award by taking on fillies and mares all year is akin to Annika Sorenstam expecting to be named "Golfer of the Year" because she won more titles then Tiger Woods. Everyone knows Tiger would beat her senseless as would nearly every other top male golfer.


Add to that Curlin and Big Brown were by FAR the two most talked about horses both in the US as well as the world. Zenyata was an afterthought.

[Aug27]

Interesting perspective.
Historical female HOY: Azeri, Lady's Secret, All Along (in the past 25 years.)

I don't recall Azeri winning against the boys, but Lady's Secret and All Along certainly did. And All Along did run more than once in the U.S.
If Miesque didn't win it, I don't see how Goldikova could get it, regardless of her immense talent.

With no U.S.-based older male winning a Grade I route (over 8f) this past weekend -- the category from which most HOY are selected -- it throws the HOY picuture into disarray, doesn't it!

I'd say Zenyatta makes the most sense, using the "have to run 2+ races in NA to qualify" angle, but I expect Big Brown might get the most actual votes, given Curlin's performance.

[oliverstoned]

horsenuts thank you for your typing and saving me time, I only put Zenyatta as HOY in orig. post because I know the voters are nitwits. Now georgerz Ravens Pass....seriously..... seriously. I will consider though if he takes the Clark H. and the Hollywood Turf Cup while he is Stateside. I like Proud Spell for 3yo Filly. For 2yo Colt I like Vineyard Haven due to my east coast bias which could be called a dirt track bias nowadays.

[horsenuts]

Interesting perspective.
Historical female HOY: Azeri, Lady's Secret, All Along (in the past 25 years.)

I don't recall Azeri winning against the boys, but Lady's Secret and All Along certainly did. And All Along did run more than once in the U.S.
If Miesque didn't win it, I don't see how Goldikova could get it, regardless of her immense talent.

With no U.S.-based older male winning a Grade I route (over 8f) this past weekend -- the category from which most HOY are selected -- it throws the HOY picuture into disarray, doesn't it!

I'd say Zenyatta makes the most sense, using the "have to run 2+ races in NA to qualify" angle, but I expect Big Brown might get the most actual votes, given Curlin's performance.

Azeri won a larger number of races in a row then Zenyata has at this stage. Personal Ensign was undefeated winning 13 straight and two Breeders Cup Races and defeated males once yet she was never named HoY. Sunday Silence won it in '88 despite losing a race that year with Easy Goer runner up. Zenyata has no case for HoY based on never taking on the best males and the fact Curlin and Big Brown both had major success at the Classic level.


All in all I'd give HoY to Curlin based on his scintillating race in Dubai followed by three major Grade I wins at 3 different tracks in the US. In fact Curlin raced all across the US at multiple tracks. His only two losses came on different type surfaces and he ran credible in both finishing 2nd and 4th.


Zenyata is clearly the top Older FIlly or Mare but I see no case for her being Hoy. If she comes back next year and takes on the boys a couple times and wins then she deserves the honor...... but backing into it won't happen if the voters are intellectually honest and not just voting on emotion.

[horsenuts]

horsenuts thank you for your typing and saving me time, I only put Zenyatta as HOY in orig. post because I know the voters are nitwits. Now georgerz Ravens Pass....seriously..... seriously. I will consider though if he takes the Clark H. and the Hollywood Turf Cup while he is Stateside. I like Proud Spell for 3yo Filly. For 2yo Colt I like Vineyard Haven due to my east coast bias which could be called a dirt track bias nowadays.

Well yes then I understand your HoY nominee based on voters being "nitwits". On that we fully agree(see: Favorite Trick among other ridiculous HoY winners).

[smokeglacken]

Here's my take:
HOY:
Raven's Pass- Doubtful to be champion 3 yr old in Europe;never mind here. Wins one race on a non-dirt track and.....: Guess we should throw away all Curlin's 4 Gr 1's (after traveling around the world for 2 races.) and running 2nd in one of America's most prestigious Gr1 turf races.
(Curlin wins hands down)

As far as Goldikova is concerned, are you joking? She deserves the vote over Zenyatta? It perplexes me that some think that this award is based on one race. Firstly, Zenyatta has amassed over 2 million dollars this year. She has faced the "best" in the world (not her problem if Euro's don't come over here to race. Don't think Zenyatta would have scratched if any Euro enterd against her in any of her races.) This is America and she beat the best that would dare to face her. Goldikova was a winner in the Mile turf race. So for that one win, against underachieving American milers, she deserves HOY? Simply put, we run on dirt, not turf. Europeans have their own awards. 4 Gr1 wins and 3 Gr2 wins I think probably will be enough to win eclipse for Distaff.

Big Brown- Too me the biggest joke of all. He wins 3 restricted to 3 yr old races and gets vote over Curlin? Hell no. shouldn't even be mentioned. Let's not start giving the Kentucky Derby and Preakness and Travers more importance on a HOY vote than Curlin's Dubai,Jockey Gold Cup,Stephen Foster and Woodward. If BB would have faced olders in a Gr1 and beat them, could then maybe see an arguement. Curlin won HOY as a 3yr old because he faced elders 2x and beat them both times. Does deserve 3 yr old eclipse.

Music Note- should not win 3 yr old filly. She lost striaght up to Proud Spell, who won the Oaks and Alabama. Throw 6 more graded placings to that equation. Proud Spell should get it.

Lastly, Curlin gets the nod over Zenyatta for HOY. Old time writers are not going to vote for a filly that ran all her races on synthetics and all in California (except 1). 4 Gr1's vs 4 Gr 1's. One against open vs one against fillies. Azeri, deservingly so, ran in a year that was perfect for a filly to win it. (here was the voting "Azeri received 84% of the total votes: 37 out of 44 from Daily Racing Form, 107 out of 128 from the National Turf Writers' Association, and 45 out of 53 from NTRA. War Emblem was second with a total of 12 votes, while Left Bank and Rock of Gibraltar each received seven. Others getting votes for Horse of the Year were Orientate who got 3 votes while Storm Flag Flying, Toccet, Street Cry, Medaglia d'Oro, Volponi, and Xtra Heat received 1 vote each. )

So you can see that her 5 Gr1's was enough to win that year. She wasn't going against Curlin. She beat War Emblem who won the Derby , Preakness and Haskell. Also proves my point about Big Brown.

IMO:
HOY- Curlin
Older Female: Zenyatta
3 yr colt: Big Brown
3 yr old filly: Proud Spell

Zenyatta go to Dubai to face Curlin? would have been a little hard at that time to think that a filly who had raced 3 or maybe most 4 times to go beat the existing HOY halfway around the world.C'mon.

[Heidilady]

A rather interesting idea that will never happen was semi-hinted at on Bloodhorse I think where they noted Commentator's going in the Clark. Well if Curlin were in good shape and not just worn out send him there, says the writer of their blog. It would be particularly fun if, while we're making up fields to clarify HOY, well send Zenyatta too. There will be speed we know this, Zenyatta will appreciate that in her come from the back attempt at a blow out although she doesn't need it. She'd also have won on dirt in the East against the top older boys. Tada, if she wins...HOY, if she doesn't but Curlin does, he gets it.

If neither do and Commentator does, well more confusion, congratulations. I'd get in a arm wrestling contest at that point to prevent Big Brown from getting it by default. Those 3 in the same race, whoever of them wins is given far more more credit by me than anything BB's done all year.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I have to go back to hiding from the kids wanting to take my candy on this, the night of Halloween. Seriously I get the irony. I also have a sweet tooth, no costume and an apartment I haven't cleaned. You'd keep the pumpkin peeps to yourself too.

[BenB]

You can not be serious about with the Ben Johnson renewal in horseflesh
(BB), if BB is voted for three yr olds HOY than I will stop complete over here, nobody is able to explain that to the big public, the wagers, the bettors and every one in the field.
Only because it was still allowed at that moment.

Thanks they are are ONLY VOTING US CHAMPS, and that,s different as everybody knows.

HOY Zenyatta without a doubt

[Dave C]

HoY is Curlin
Older mare: Zenyatta

Mares, or any other division for that matter only win when the choices from the older male category are uninspiring, unable to put any significant number of G1 wins together. Curlin may not have had a perfect season but he had a very good season, establishing himself as the top older male.

3yo: Big Brown. There is no other 3yo nearly as accomplished in the US, and although Raven's Pass, and Henry are undoubtedly better horses, one race in the US should not (and in this case is not) enough to be named US champion.

3yof: Proud Spell. There may be some voter out there who thinks that Eight Belles should win but fortunately there won't be too many of them.

[bdw0617]

Interesting perspective.
Historical female HOY: Azeri, Lady's Secret, All Along (in the past 25 years.)

I don't recall Azeri winning against the boys, but Lady's Secret and All Along certainly did. And All Along did run more than once in the U.S.
If Miesque didn't win it, I don't see how Goldikova could get it, regardless of her immense talent.

With no U.S.-based older male winning a Grade I route (over 8f) this past weekend -- the category from which most HOY are selected -- it throws the HOY picuture into disarray, doesn't it!

I'd say Zenyatta makes the most sense, using the "have to run 2+ races in NA to qualify" angle, but I expect Big Brown might get the most actual votes, given Curlin's performance.

Azeri won a larger number of races in a row then Zenyata has at this stage. Personal Ensign was undefeated winning 13 straight and two Breeders Cup Races and defeated males once yet she was never named HoY. Sunday Silence won it in '88 despite losing a race that year with Easy Goer runner up. Zenyata has no case for HoY based on never taking on the best males and the fact Curlin and Big Brown both had major success at the Classic level.


All in all I'd give HoY to Curlin based on his scintillating race in Dubai followed by three major Grade I wins at 3 different tracks in the US. In fact Curlin raced all across the US at multiple tracks. His only two losses came on different type surfaces and he ran credible in both finishing 2nd and 4th.


Zenyata is clearly the top Older FIlly or Mare but I see no case for her being Hoy. If she comes back next year and takes on the boys a couple times and wins then she deserves the honor...... but backing into it won't happen if the voters are intellectually honest and not just voting on emotion.

+ 1

Pepper's pride has more stakes wins than Zenyatta

Curlin has more money.

she's good, and the top filly, but not HOY. I'd give it to Raven's pass before i gave it to her. no i wouldn't. i'm joking. but she doesn't deserve it over curlin


the breeders cup is not the end all be all for the ecipse.
]

[bdw0617]

georgez and i usually don't get alone, but I think some of you are seriously overlooking what is probably the most interesting elcipse race of the year.


you have big brown, who won the florida derby, kentucky derby, preakness, haskell.

you have raven's pass who won the QEII, and the Celebration Mile.. a big time race over the other side of the pound, and the breeders Cup classic. Becuase he won the classic, his races overseas count here. and he's a KY bred to boot.

Man.. I really don't know. I would actually give the edge to raven's pass. he's a better horse, and it really is that simple. he's faced better, beaten better, and won the richest american race we have to offer.

big brown never ran in a stakes race against 4YO's.